Should gay men be able to take communion?
A Dutch Prince of the Carnival was snubbed by the Catholic Church recently when a priest refused to grant him holy communion because he lives together with his boyfriend. The incident resulted has gotten much attention in the Netherlands and now multitudes of gay men and women look set to descend on one of the Netherlands’ largest Catholic churches next Sunday in protest. The big question is whether the church will then refuse offer the wafer and a sip of wine to any, or all, of its new visitors.
Gijs Vermeulen, the carnival prince who set off the current quarrel, said he felt “treated differently” when his priest refused to share Christ’s body with him. Vermeulen added that if the Catholic Church was true to its own standards, very few people would be able to take communion. The diocese of Den Bosch, the backdrop for the recent upheaval, has announced it will also be asking remarried divorcees and other people “living in sin” not to take communion from now on.
What do you think? Is the Catholic Church only being consistent in refusing Vermeulen his communion? Or is it just a case of thinly veiled discrimination?
Friday 26 February 2010, 16:36
Why not, I also took communion, and from a gay priest, while I am not even gay or Catholic.
Friday 26 February 2010, 17:53
Yes, it is thinly veiled discrimination. No one is perfect or infallible. But human nature is flexible not rigid. That applies to homosexuals, divorced couples—everyone.
Friday 26 February 2010, 18:43
Your article titled “Should gay men be able to take communion?” is discriminatory. The question should be asked: “Should gay people be served communion”
Gay men & women should be treated equally. I’ll even take that a step further and say that all men and women should be treated equally regardless of color, national origin and sexual preference. Discrimination of any type is not in God’s vocabulary.
Priests are servants of God and therefore do not have the right to refuse the Eucharist to anyone. I’d be willing to discuss this with the hierarchy anytime.
I’m a devout Roman Catholic and was raised in Catholic schools in the US. If the Catholic Church wants to continue to exist, many things need to change….
Friday 26 February 2010, 21:59
Why would any self respecting GLBT person want to be part of that church anyway. The pope has made it clear we are dirty filthy sinners who deserve to be hated. There are so many other faiths that except GLBT. Get over that fact that the catholic church will never accept you.
Saturday 27 February 2010, 0:33
This is an outrage. Yes, of course homosexuals should not be barred from receiving Holy Communion. Would Jesus turn them away? I don’t think so. The Roman Catholic Church likes to take the high moral ground about a lot of things, but considering its history regarding the abuse of children and the scandalous covering up of those heinous acts, it is hardly in the position to be the “righteous” party.
Saturday 27 February 2010, 20:26
This is SO a bogus arguement. An organization makes the rules for its members. Don’t like the rules? Leave. Anyone trying to force that org to accept them, whatever the reason, just proves that that person wants to pervert the org. Biespiel: If this involved rules changes for football [soccer], jeesh! there would be blood in the streets.
Saturday 27 February 2010, 23:34
Hmm, next step of the diocese, I am sure, will be to withdraw all priests and other staff that supposedly have a celibatary life-style but who, in fact, do not live this way from their functions? Or should the first step be to lock up all priests and other staff who have abused children? Of course, THEY should not be allowed to receive water/wine/holy communion, because they have been “living in very great sin”.
Sunday 28 February 2010, 0:13
The Catholic Church should be consistent in its application of cannon law concerning who may, or may not, receive Holy Communion.
A “true” practicing Catholic clearly understands that receiving Holy Communion while knowingly living in sin is not only sacrilegious, but dishonors the very tenants of one’s faith by making a mockery of the Holy Trinity. A very foolish and dangerous practice… G-d sees the truth, but waits.
Homosexuals and their supporters in the leftist-progressive Euro media hate the Catholic Church because it will not condone homosexual behavior or policy, much less cave to its radical (social engineering) activism.
In spite of the Bible’s succinct condemnation of homosexuality as a sin, many endeavor to commit spiritual suicide by playing Russian roulette with their immortal soul for the sake of their obsession.
Unfortunately, the odds demand that all the chambers are loaded, and G-d is perfectly willing to let them do it, after all… who is He to impose His moral absolutes on such a special group of people who view eternal damnation as a minor incovience to the practice and glorification of their sexual orientation.
Of course, one day fate will inevitably pull the trigger, and then… there will be hell to pay. For those enlightened Euro progressives who say that religion is just a myth, suppose you’re wrong and there is a G-d… and even worse, a hell?
Sunday 28 February 2010, 7:20
Absolutely the Catholic Church should refuse communion to homosexuals! Communion is a ceremony for Christians. Homosexuals are not Christians. You cannot be a “christian homosexual” anymore than you can be “christian prostitute” or a “christian thief” or a “christian pedophile”. According to the Bible, homosexuality is on the bottom rung of immorality scale (See Leviticus 18). Understand that there will be no homosexuals in heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) and that Jesus Christ will Himself send them to Hell (Matthew 13:41-42). These militant homosexuals have crossed the line of propriety. Be thankful I live in the United States, for I were there I would kick those trouble makers in their perverted behinds.
Sunday 28 February 2010, 18:50
The Catholic Church takes a harder line on homosexuality, than on their own horrific criminal habit and history of sexual abuse of children.
Such decisions smack of hypocrisy and hate … Vermeulen would no doubt turn away Mary of Magdalan and JC’s mum. Shame on him !
Hopefully hundreds, thousands of gays and supporters will turn up every Sunday from now on, with pink triangles, to show Vermeulen and his Vatican homophobes, how shortsighted and un-catholic their outmoded opinions are.
NB
The actual meanings of the word catholic are: fitted to include all mankind, universal, broadly sympathetic, tolerant
Monday 1 March 2010, 16:33
I applaud the decision of the priest. I am not Catholic but Reformed and I want to say AMEN to standing up to the current social pressure to allow anything under the sun. Yes. we are ALL, me too, sinners saved by grace however anyone who is intentionally living a life of sinful actions should not be at the table/altar. That goes for those living together without marriage, practicing thieves, gossips and the like.
I have serious problems with Mary’s comments about excluding homosexual persons from being followers of Christ. There is a struggle involved in that orientation that goes far beyond anything most of us will ever understand.
I will say that I do not believe one can live a homosexual lifestyle and be free from the judgment of God.
Peace
Al
Monday 1 March 2010, 18:10
Jesus Christ had absolutely nothing to say about homosexuality, and even the Old Testament only prohibits male homosexual acts, not female.
The one group of sinners Jesus spoke out against was child abusers. Yes, it is total hypocrisy for the Church to refuse communion to some while allowing child abusers to give communion to others.
Monday 1 March 2010, 20:13
In my personal life I have known at least as many gay individuals as “breeders.” My partner in business has been in a committed gay relationship for 28 yers. When we met he asked me how our business partnership would work, he being gay and I being a conservative Catholic breeder.
I told him that the Bible is very clear about both homosexuality and sodomy, they are forbidden. I then said that unless he grabbed my ass, I would never notice, that MY actions are what I am accountable for and that Christ has commanded that we act with compassion. We are good friends.
The fact that human culture follows whatever people of a given time find to their satisfaction, means that the effort to find and obey God will always come, from time to time, in conflict with social trends.
People have been trying to eliminate or negate the Catholic church for several thousand years; yet the Catholic church is growing not declining.
The “in your face” activist gay political movement, in my opinion has done more to harm the social integration of gay individuals than almost any other political or social movement.
Why? Because it villifies dissenting opinion and belief and, in doing so, demonstrates exactly the behavior they wish their opponents to stop. Many gay rights spokespeople are actually arguing that unless society agree with them, absolutely, the society itself must be altered until society does agree with them absolutely.
Outside of such gay movement attitudes being intolerant and hypocritical with respect to breeders, it puts gay individuals who don’t agree with them societally in a truly intolerable situation. My friend is one. “Being right” (gelijk hebben) has been the cause of almost all the horror I have seen in life.
If you believe in Jesus Christ keep his commandments. If you don’t, don’t. Claiming you believe in God and then deciding that God didn’t know what he was doing when his instruction to us was created is, simply, nonsensical and a lie of convenience.
Monday 1 March 2010, 20:16
Inasmuch as I would like the Catholic Church to be more inclusive, I also think it has a right–like any other organization–to set its rules. If you don’t like the rules, start your own religion or join another. This issue has been blown out of proportion by the Dutch media.
Members of the Dutch Royal Family are not allowed to be gays or lesbians, yet one doesn’t see the Dutch media reporting on this. Institutions set their rules, and as long as these rules do not provoke violence or hatred, we should let them be.
Monday 1 March 2010, 23:06
shouldnt the question be gay people?
Tuesday 2 March 2010, 16:12
Rise above the noise, raise yourself up into the light, and stop worrying about how other’s choice to live their lives, it simply doesn’t matter. In the end, you will understand that above all, it is simply about love…..
Life is about learning to open your heart to the light…
If your religion has instructed you to kill, condemn, abuse, judge, preach, or think ‘lower’ of others, then it has sadly missed the point..
Life is a great river. Those that insist to cling to the shores will have to endure great suffering and those who refuse change, will suffer even greater, those who enter the river and keep their head above water and their eyes open will see that the river has it’s own destination, and it’s own course. when you open your heart to the light, you will find others to celebrate this understanding with, and you will learn much from this then.
The people who hurt others are confused and refuse to open their hearts…
It is unfortunate some of these take the form of ‘religious’ persons, and gain a higher trust from their communities.
These troubled individuals has a longer path to walk, and will continue to sleepwalk until they learn to open their hearts and accept the light that is love into their hearts.
We are on the edge of a great change my brothers and sisters.
We are the ones We have been waiting for….
It is time to rise into the light..
Live and let live, brothers and sisters
….We are one…..
Peace to all =)
Wednesday 3 March 2010, 11:15
Christians who take the Word(s) of God literally to heart, we non-believers wonder if you still refrain from eating shellfish ? Wear head scarves, and cloth of only one type of material? Stone non believers to death ? If not, read up on Leviticus & Deutoronomy .. makes harrowing reading. Thou Shalt Not Kill seems to be subject to certain conditions and exceptions.
The Bible has been rewritten and re-interpreted by many MEN over hundreds of years in an age when Mythos not Logos ruled. It is riddled with contradictions, much is borrowed from more ancient beliefs, much is violent.
It is annoying to agnostics, atheists, and even to many of those who consider themselves religious & progressive ( whatever their brand of spirituality ), how adamant and condemning fundamentalists are. How dare they dogmatically condemn anyone who does not agree to their narrow definition of what a Christian is and who deserves to go to heaven. Gosh, it wasn’t too long ago you were burning us on bonfires ..
So much bad has been done and condoned in the name of God .. the slave trade, incest, heretic burning, crusades etc etc .. What makes you think you have the good end of the stick now ? Because certain prominent religious dignitaries say so ?? Gosh -they have been wrong before!
As for Homosexuality in the Bible .. there are various debates on anti-Canaanite writ etc etc – BUT !! Apparently Lesbianism is not an issue … so WOOHOO !!
I’m off to find me Ruth or Naomi – and then we’ll head down to Den Bosch to eat a hostie that has morphed into the living flesh of an invisible being up in the sky.
Oh, Lest We Forget once more, Catholics are brought up to believe that the hostie and wine are transformed into the actual flesh and blood of Christ, through a process of transubstantiation. Theoretically, a cannibalistic rite.
Thursday 4 March 2010, 9:19
Dear Friends,
There are several points to take into account in this discussion. First, Catholics believe that Communion is the real Body and Blood of Jesus. It is NOT a symbol. It is the real thing, and since it is our Lord we must approach it with great reverence and respect. This is why the issue is so sensitive to Catholics.
Second, it has been the teaching of the Church since the very beginning that those in mortal sin should not receive Communion. Mortal sin breaks the communion we should have with God and with others, therefore receiving it while in a state of sin is an offense to others.
Third, homosexuality in itself is not sinful. A homosexual is not automatically in a state of sin. It is how he or she lives out that aspect of his or her life that could be sinful. Similarly, it is how a heterosexual lives out his or her heterosexuality that is or is not sinful. None of us is perfect, but Jesus offers all of us reconciliation with God. This is good news!
This whole discussion needs to be guided by understanding, love and humility.
Thursday 4 March 2010, 21:52
Judge lest ye be judged.
From everything I’ve learned while visiting, then living here in The Hague, the Dutch are a very tolerant and non-judgmental people. As a Catholic myself but still very liberated in my beliefs and thinking I am appalled that any Catholic church, or any priest, would deny anyone a sacrament.
I have gay friends back in Texas and have even been a witness to a commitment ceremony and I’ve never felt they were any less than fantastic people. There are plenty of heterosexual people who are completely immoral so the ‘stereotypes’ are issued by people who are intolerant of others and their beliefs.
I was raised to be caring, loving, and tolerant of others.
Friday 5 March 2010, 18:33
Dear Sudo Dodo,
Did you mean to be derogatory, insulting and intolerant with your flip comments about “hosties”, or were you merely trying to be funny? In discussions like this, it is important to be considerate of what other people consider sacred and important, lest we wind up demeaning others as less than human. Hitler delighted in demeaning the Jews (as well as Catholics, Romani, and other non-Aryans).
Dear Casey,
You touch on a good question – when is it pastorally responsible to deny or postpone a sacrament. In Washington where I live, the presumption is that a person who presents himself or herself for Communion has done the examination of conscience and is prepared to receive. Merely being homosexual is not grounds for exclusion. And you are absolutely correct – there are many heterosexuals who are indeed completely immoral. This is not an issue that can be easily reduced to a few talking points or a flashy headline in a newspaper.
If your folks raised you to be caring, loving and tolerant of other people, they did a good job as parents.
Friday 5 March 2010, 18:58
What about gay clergymen? Gay pastors? Gay priests? Gay bishops? Surely they’re all good Christians. Perhaps of their suffering at the hands of people like Ms Waterton they are in a better position to tell us about Christ’s message of acceptance and forgiveness.
Monday 8 March 2010, 18:15
The Eucharist is not a wafer and wine it is the true Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. This is the fundamental belief of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church knows that to receive Jesus into our bodies in a state of mortal sin, whether that be from homosexual acts or any other moral sin, is to actually harm the person and the whole body of the Church. A priest as the father of the community has the responsibility to guard the members against harm, thus if he knows a person to be in a state of mortal sin he should refuse them the Eucharist.
I am of firm belief that the Catholic Church is the one of the few religious organizations that has not fallen to one of the greatest victories of the devil, relativism. Tolerance is not saying “That’s alright for you,” it’s saying “That’s wrong, but I love you anyways.” That is what Catholics are called to do. We know that what we believe is The Truth and we must uphold that. Part of that Truth is to love everyone, but loving them doesn’t mean we have to approve of their actions.
Monday 8 March 2010, 23:43
According to 2000 years of consistent Christian teaching (and 2000+ years of Jewish teaching, before that), homosexual behaviour is labeled as sin, and any active participation in sin requires that communion be withheld. You do not have to agree… but you also do not have the right that others agree with you! When *any* openly sinful lifestyle becomes public knowledge (any means any), it becomes a source of scandal to the believers and the Priest is forced to withhold communion. To do otherwise would violate *his* faith and his vows.
Homosexuals have the right to not be treated badly but they no right to demand the approval of others, any more than anyone else does. Demanding that others violate their conscience’s to make gays happy, is nothing more than intellectual and emotional rape. If you don’t like a given church, then go start your own… but *stop* violating the conscience and faith of others!
Wednesday 10 March 2010, 1:01
I am wondering if today’s Roman Catholic Church even knows anything about the message of Jesus Christ: love one another! The R.C. Church has become the bastion of gay hatred and anti-Gay propaganda similar to Nazi marginalization of Jews in the 1930′s and 40′s. It will deny this accusation, of course, but the truth is otherwise. When history is written truthfully and accurately, the R.C. Church’s positions will not be treated kindly.
Wednesday 10 March 2010, 18:46
So many great arguments have already been made as to why this question is ridiculous but I’ll add just a comment…
The question itself is ludicrous because, as scripture says, only God may judge the heart of man, and each of us must answer for our own transgressions. It is not the place of the priest, pastor, or minister to decide who should or should not receive communion – the choice to receive is upon the individual. In God’s eyes, sin is sin – so if those who commit adultery, lie, cheat, steal, harbor grudges in their hearts, have sex outside of marriage, overeat, fail to care for their bodies (the temple of God), they too should be refused the sacrament!
No one is ever sinless except by the grace of God – and there but by the Grace of God goes each of us, a sinner.
Wednesday 10 March 2010, 22:15
Gay people should be free to believe in the same fantasies as heterosexuals.
Tuesday 16 March 2010, 11:55
It is not like taking Communion is a basic human right. The Catholic Church is a private entity, and it is within its rights to give Communion or not to whoever it decides. It may decide that to share in the eucharistic rite you have to be baptized and have gone through Confirmation, or it may decide that it is enough for you to be eight years old and able to tell the difference between normal bread and the consecrated Host.
If you want to change the internal operation of the Catholic Church, there are excellent procedures to do so from within the Church itself (being a bishop would probably help).
Then of course we might get technical about the requirement for “purity” before you participate in Communion, the efficacy of Confession on somebody who sins repeatedly and publicly (according to whatever definition of sin is in operation etc.) but this is all internal debate to me.
Furthermore, Catholicism is not the only option out there! You can still call yourself a Christian and join another church that you consider more reasonable.
(full disclosure: I was raised as a Catholic, but I am not one now)
Saturday 20 March 2010, 21:35
It’s ok for the ‘priest’ to be gay and molest kids, but it’s not ok for a homosexual to take communion from the gay/pedofile priest?
I’ve been there – slept with the same priest on a Saturday night who refused me communion on Sunday morning!
Saturday 27 March 2010, 14:47
Gays are born the same as us and die the same. It is time that all these different religions with different covenants get intol the real life.Doesnt the CHurch say we are all created in gods image. Is he white,black, spanish, german, maybe a woman.
There is no God get used to it. If there is he discrimates between people, lets young children be abused,not only by so called priests,they should be ashamed to call themselves priests.
Name and shame them all, why should they be priviledged.
I believe the Popes brother is in the news. I thought they were whiter than white.
Monday 29 March 2010, 0:37
It’s ridiculous to make others take Communion but not allow gay men to do the same.
The ritual is already one of sexual domination. The subject opens his or her mouth and takes Jesus’ flesh into his mouth, and then swallows Jesus’ bodily fluids, in front of everyone.
So if everyone else is getting to blow the priest in Jesus’ name, why not gay men?
Are y’all afraid they might enjoy it too much?
Monday 29 March 2010, 20:35
Why would a gay person want to bother with seeking acceptance of the Catholic church? The Catholic church is within it’s rights to refuse communion to whomever it chooses to sanction. On the other hand this same church is full of pedophiles…former Nazi sympathizers…hypocritical gay priests…centuries of historical abuse of power. Who cares if the Catholic church refuses me communion. I don’t accept them as the final arbitrator of my morals and the definitive last word of morality. The Catholic church has a history of perverting moral definitions to justify their own means to the end…MORE MONEY AND ABSOLUTE POWER
Friday 14 May 2010, 4:23
Incorrect to say Believing Catholic Homosexuals can’t receive Holy Communion!!
Only,Practicing Homosexuals, who are believing Catholics can’t receive Holy Communion
Monday 17 May 2010, 6:24
Born and still a practicing catholic I cannot see how Fr Michael can advise someone to go and start another church, when the church teaches there is only one true church.Go figure.
Back in my school days 40 years ago, we used to argue with the priests about what most reasonable catholic students saw as ridiculous church absolute truths. Hence most of my classmates drifted away from the church. As to did most of the priest that taught me.
We as students would openly discuss with one another who we thought the gay priests were and in some cases it was obvious.
Of course what did you do in life 40 years ago when homosexuality was still a crime and most people thought homosexuality and pedaphilia were one in the same thing. For many catholic gay’s the call to a religious life seemed the answer when you are a non person.
Thank god times have moved on and society has become much more tolerant and the kind of life that Christ strove for, and the tolerant loving that he showed is wining through. Unfortuneately the catholic church I belong to has strayed away from many of the qualities that were Christ.
In todays age of instant communication it has become very difficult for organisations like religions and governments to hide the truth from the people. Of course when the truth does surface in particular religions find it difficult to respond; the catholic church is no exception.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Of course gay couples should be able to receive communion.