Dutch people: direct or just plain rude?
THIS DISCUSSION HAS BEEN CLOSED.
Are the Dutch rude? the German historian and journalist Christoph Driessen asks in an essay for NRC Handelsblad. “For me, as a German, it would be impolite to answer this question with a yes. Let me just say: the Dutch are direct – much more direct than other people.”
To Driessen, Pim Fortuyn’s “I say what I think” – and bugger anyone who thinks differently – sums the Dutch attitude up nicely. “Of course everyone should be able to say what they think, but it matters how you say it.”
Professor Paul Schnabel of the university of Utrecht takes things one step further.
“Courtesy, willingness to please, and good manners are not national virtues in the Netherlands,” he writes. “To a certain extent we are even proud of this fact. We like to say that this is because we are so honest and straightforward. Anyone born or raised outside our borders would say that the Dutch are mainly blunt and rude.”
What do you think? Are you an expatriate who has experienced Dutch directness/rudeness first-hand? Are you Dutch and do you agree/disagree with Schnabel or Driessen’s viewpoints? Let us know.
Tuesday 4 August 2009, 15:59
YES!
Tuesday 4 August 2009, 17:43
Ever since I heard of the “rumour” that Dutch people are so direct that it’s even rude, I tried to find examples of it. But I never could. I don’t think Dutch people are more direct than myself (a Portuguese), in general, and I don’t think people here are, on average, more rude than the Portuguese, or the British or German, at least from my experiences there…
Tuesday 4 August 2009, 18:20
Being an expatriate and a new Dutch national I would say the Dutch Community is not much different then the most sophisticated nations at this globe (with their strong and week points).
Rudeness or bluntness is also not the only issue of the inhabitant of this tiny little country.
While writing this I do not mean that I disagree with Mr.Dreissen of Mr.Schnable but wanted to add that ‘there are always reasons for certain human behaviours and attitudes.
I think Netherlands needs a ‘political leader’ A leader who could help the Dutch public to adopt more realistic approach towards changes in our society. A debate is required, where at least someone could help us to understand that Netherlands Is A Multicultural Society Now with different cultures/sub cultures and identities.
I feel at the moment “We are a direction-less nation”. Our princess Maxima (our future Queen) had to point out about “Identity Crisis”.The role of that particular ‘leadership’ has to be as a ‘Bridge Builder’.
I will have to mention that populist politics have contributed a lot towards negative attitude and mentality.And still its effecting very rapidly and it would be reaching at the ‘boiling point’ when the local government elections are held (march 2010) as well as the next parliament elections.
At the end I dare to say ” our established political parties and their leadership has to be blamed for present negative behaviour and attitude,they simply surrendered and ignored their responsibilities on this particular subject”.
That’s why this country needs A New Leader with Global Vision
and Expertise and I have full confidence in the capability of the Dutch People!!!
Wednesday 5 August 2009, 12:44
I have lived in the Netherlands for well over 5 years now. I don’t find the Dutch rude or too direct. I think they are just human with a peculiar culture(s). What I do however see more of in the Netherlands is a seemingly rebellious and arrogant attitude amongst the young (i.e. teenagers and adolescents). But then this attitude could be typical of young people in most parts of the world, I believe.
I also tend to think that young Dutch ladies of Turkish/Moroccan background are more polite and better mannered than the native Nordic Dutch. This is based on series of events I have experienced. For instance, those who get up in the bus for the elderly to sit down etc.
One thing I would certainly say about the Dutch in general is that they are frugal. They are really careful with money, sometimes to the point of being stingy, but then you couldn’t expect less of people raised in a Calvinistic tradition.
Wednesday 5 August 2009, 12:51
I guess it is mainly directed toward ‘service’ (or lack thereof). Considering you have to call an 0900 number to get customer service on your provider of services. Also the way people are paid here does not help. People get paid whether or not you buy their clothes/drinks/electronics. Normally I enjoy being left alone while looking for clothes so THAT works for me but others want assistance (actually lies) in choosing. I am dutch and quite direct but never rude. From a clothing perspective when asked I give my unbiased opinion & people generally do not mind.
On a personal level there are some people that are rude because they are oh so intelligent (they usually read this paper though & I do aswell) and cannot be bothered to talk to in their eyes the ‘lower’ class. (it is a physically describable type of human, they split off in the sixties to become their own species) I am actually very quickwitted & tend to always have something pertinent and/or funny to say in any situation to anyone. Whenever I am out & about I always have a good time.
Wednesday 5 August 2009, 14:33
Rude, rude all the way. Once me and my wife were in Belgium, our neighbor to the south, where we were caught kissing up. Some “autochtoon” kid came up the hill, not to start yelling, cursing or making fun of our clumsyness trying to hide what couldn’t be hidden, no, he said: “desolé, desolé”, retraiting on his steps.
He was sorry for having disturbed us, mind you! Rather unthinkable, in the Netherlands, and I could go on and on. A country of peasants, of idiots, of morons, our beloved country…
Thursday 6 August 2009, 8:45
The dutch people seem to me like the capitalist archetypus – self-satisfied, ignorant, unsentimental, light-hearted and dynamic. They are honest and straight too, not the worst characteristics. That make them to believe what they say and do. They are like the New England US-Americans, maybee because the Dutch gave them a big deal of mindset.
At all i got the impression that the dutch mentality is also remarkeable inconsistent. One can hear or read dutch lamentings about the small country suffering from it greater neighboors. But doesnt sound great ambitions out of this? I think its better Netherlands has never been as great like France or Germany , otherthise they propably would have dominated their surroundings like a duck take to waters.
Thursday 6 August 2009, 11:16
I’m originally from Israel and been living here for five years. I have also heard of the famous Dutch rudeness and directness. But, in my experiece the Dutch are nice, polite and considerate. I would not call them rude in any way, and certainly not direct. But perhaps slightly more direct than the Germans, and slightly less polite than the British
Thursday 6 August 2009, 21:19
The Dutch open education system has it’s impact. I am born Dutch, but did spend 5 years at school in Belgium. As a ‘rude’ Dutchman, Belgian teachers really gave me a hard time as my respectless, direct and mostly provoking commentairy would always raise their blood pressure. When I switched over to finish school back in the Netherlands, my opinion was embraced and supported. I always considered the difference between Dutch and Belgian scholing to be like: When you would swear against a teacher, The Belgian teacher would give you at least 8 hours of detention, while a Dutch teacher would ask “why do you think so?”
It’s a general cultural thing, school is just an example. Dutch are more open and assertive compared to other cultures. And often forget that other cultures aren’t like that, therfor acidently cross the line here and there in the eyes of others.
So yes, The Dutch can be blunt and rude, but mostly without the deliberate intention to do so.
Thursday 6 August 2009, 22:08
The first time I understood two Dutch friends joking with each other in Dutch, I thought they were going to shoot each other or something. I came to love Dutch verbal combat. I think it comes from the Dutch having so much social control constraining other parts of their lives, they have become famous for having big mouths, especially in public.
Friday 7 August 2009, 1:43
The Dutch direct?? Is this a joke?
Friday 7 August 2009, 2:16
A Dutch native living the the USA, I experienced myself as rude. Believe me, I am not consciously rude, nor was it ever pointed out while living in NL. I, indeed speak up or give ‘direct’ answers and this is more difficult to explain than just in a few sentences.
I notice that children in the US are taught to be more polite/less rude. I see examples in the facts that children are taught to send thank you notes for even the smallest present or fun experience like a sleep over. I also see school actively having ‘nice words’ on the walls, and children learn to use polite salutations to other/adults. I even think that kids don’t always get the freedom they need to explore the world, but they do it is just they way they do it.
This taught polite behavior is not always carried over in adulthood (there are rude Americans as well), but often it is! My coworkers and friends have looked multiple times with frowned eyes at me when I did something that I thought was good; speaking up during a meeting, challenging the opinion of my superior in order to get the whole team a better work environment.
In contrast, Dutch people may experience Americans as ruse and mainly loud. I think that this is no rudeness but ‘ignorance’ of the Americans.
In conclusion, I thought the two cultures would be quite alike before moving here, but I was wrong. Yes, there are a lot of similarities like stores, sports, and the way we look, but the communication stream is farther apart from each other than we think!
Friday 7 August 2009, 6:43
Having lived abroad for some 30 years, I’ve come to realize that while the Dutch are often more direct than other nationalities, some of that directness is caused by Dutch ignorance of the sensibilities of other cultures. I recall the two friends-of-a-friend, who, having gotten my office address, decided to stop by unannounced – presenting themselves in the lobby of one of the largest Wall Street banks in shorts and T-shirts, complete with their touring bikes. Or the 55 year old acquaintance who visited me at the headquarters of a large telecommunications company, dressed in hippie garb, carrying a rather large backpack – making security staff very nervous, this being a few miles from the Pentagon and the White House.
Something I learned during my years in Britain is that directness is appreciated when called for, but what we aren’t taught in The Netherlands (at least when I grew up) is how to tell when it is appropriate, and when it is preferable to keep a low profile, and listen and learn, rather than opine.
Only The Netherlands could have spawned an Abortion Boat – “We’ll tell you what is good for you, never mind what you think”. The culture I live in today, in America, has something I never experienced in Holland – up front respect. Especially as a Dutchman, I’ve found that very refreshing, after I got used to it.
Friday 7 August 2009, 11:31
Why is it that the dutch find themselves ruder than foreigners do? When addressing a person of dutch origin for a foreigner is is not much different than addressing someone from any other country. Why should the dutch feel bad about themselves when the french have caused Japanese people to have to set up an organisation that helps tourists cope with the ‘rude’ french attitude.
Friday 7 August 2009, 14:27
Yes, they are!!!
Rude and totally without style.
They have no chance.
Friday 7 August 2009, 22:05
yes the dutch. I am an australian and when visiting amsterdam recently, my daughter got on a bus holding a young child. Not one dutch man got up and offered her a seat, in the end she had to demand someone gave her a seat. I could not believe that the men in amsterdam was so rude.
Friday 7 August 2009, 23:53
I am studying in the Netherlands for one year and I must say that generally I have not found the Dutch people to be rude though I am not sure whether they are direct or not. However, if they prefer to be direct no matter what emotional distress it can cause on others, I would be interested to know how they feel about it if someone is direct and tell them in the same way they do. I am saying this because I have seen many Dutch getting really angry after they are given some criticism politely. If they get angry for a polite criticism then it is difficult to imagine their reaction for a rude and direct criticism. We are all humans and we should respect each other’s sensitivities. If something is unpleasant to us, then it is important to know that it might be unpleasant to others.
Saturday 8 August 2009, 7:16
As a U.S. citizen who has traveled all over the world and lived in Amsterdam on and off for years I have found the Dutch to be the most honest and also most civilized people on the planet. What we and the uptight Brits call “rude and direct” is noting more than being honest and open. Looking at it from a Dutch perspective, people who are not open and direct are not honest. It is ironic to see people from countries with loud and rude citizens criticize the Dutch who are extremely civilized.
Saturday 8 August 2009, 13:02
Just plain rude!!! There is no excuse for poor manners and poor service in any country. Having lived here for 1 month, I think the Netherlands is a third world country. I find the people selfish and ignorant. The Netherlands may have open and tolerant laws but this is not reflected by the people who are deeply conservative. The UK is years ahead in every respect of service and culture.
Saturday 8 August 2009, 21:58
First of all I don’t believe that the Dutch are honest.
As a Polish citizen living in Holland I can see that the Dutch internet is full of swearing at our (Poles) address. Kut-Polen, kanker-Polen, just name it. At the same time (luckily) it is not so frequent that someone names in kanker-Pool in face. I have thus the feeling that plenty of the Dutch actually think about me like that even though they don’t say it out loud.
For the same reasons it’s hard for me to believe that Dutch are actually polite people with up-front respect.
Sunday 9 August 2009, 13:10
I believe that the way that Dutch react on Poles is an excellent example how rude can they be.
These are not just ordinary people that use rude language at the address of Polish. De Volkskrant called Polish in one of the articles “smerig volk” which I would translate to “shitty nation”.
Even the columnist of the NRC Next (the sister newspaper of NRC Handelsblad) Jan Blokker called Polish not so long ago on a national television “tuig” = “scumbags”.
Has he been direct? I don’t think so. To me he has been just rude as one can be.
I could come with thousands of such examples.
Sunday 9 August 2009, 19:43
Nice to see posts here from some true allochtonen, for my fellow autochtoon countrymen are full of, excusez le mot, shit.
it is posts of people like Menno #13, one of those fellow coutrymen, that I have started to hate behaviour we tend to display here and abroad; just blame all our rudeness on ignorance of other cultures and your home free…
he has a point, being pointless nontheless: recently they (the State with their crappy, shitty and lousy communicationsfirm, Postbus 51) tell the Dutch audience that they can behave rather anti-social sometimes, without even knowing…
in that crappy, shitty and lousy clip one can see some yelling idiot with his/her cellphone…but is it truly that hard to imagine other people have ears too…
hear hear!
Monday 10 August 2009, 10:00
Can 20 & 21 please come up with a Euro-country that is happy with the influx of immigrants. Not even specifically against Poles. Brits are exactly the same, everything is fine up until you encroach onto their playing field. The immigration country of the world (USA) is no different.
Monday 10 August 2009, 12:38
@19 Karen “Having lived here for 1 month, I think the Netherlands is a third world country”
:-O. Isn’t that a little quick for such a conclusion??!! This comment says more about YOUR rudeness than about the Dutch. Please be so kind as to live here a little longer, before making such bold and unfounded statements. I guess you’re still a little homesick, otherwise you wouldn’t make these ill-founded comments.
@20 & 21: I guess you are right, but I think the cause lies in the fact that you don’t really mingle in our society either. Of course I am stating this a little black and white, but the Dutch see about 4 or 5 cars around one house in a residential area (there is already a problem with parking), they all leave around 0500 to go to work, they come back around 1800 after having been at the Aldi or Lidl, and then nobody leaves the house again to mingle with the local people (or “autochtonen” as we tend to call ourselves). And you don’t mingle cause a lot of you don’t speak the language. And if people don’t communicate, people will make up their own stories.
I know it’s a little black and white, but I guess if Polish migrant workers would also be a little more open to their neighbours, the situation would be a lot better. I have nothing against Polish people by the way … my wife is Polish.
Monday 10 August 2009, 20:24
As a Dutchman having lived abroad for over forty years now, it is true that over the years I have – on occasion – been accused of being “too direct” and being “insensitive”, particularly in management roles and when dealing with staff. I guess that is part of my Dutch heritage when you grow up with such expressions as “je moet er geen doekjes om winden” (“don’t soften the truth”) or “zachte heelmeesters maken stinkende wonden” (“gentle physicians create smelly wounds”). Such sayings are about addressing issues directly and efficiently, even if this makes you unpopular or causes someone discomfort. The main thing is to get things done and move on from there.
Having being married to an English woman for roughly the same time, the difference between us is (still!) remarkable, in that the English are indeed far more polite that the Dutch, and are much more conscious of the effect they have on others and the obligations that follow from them. For instance, the first thing my wife thinks of when getting a present from someone that she must get a “Thank You” card out as soon as possible in order to not appear ungrateful. Etc., etc.
However – and this perhaps more to the point – over the years that I have been gone I have witnessed the gradual deterioration of all norms and values in Dutch society. In Holland this is known as “De Verloedering van de Maatschappij”, and reveals itself in the growing lack of respect between people, based on the premise that “alles mag” – everything is allowed – and no one can tell you what you can and cannot do. But as opposed to resulting in respecting each others individuality, it has lead to the general disrespect of authority and society as whole. More often than not, the general attitude seems to be “Ik doe wat ik will, en als het je niet aanstaat, kan je dood vallen” – I do what I want, and if you don’t like it, you can drop dead as far as I am concerned. This leaves little room for any kind of mutual respect between individuals, leaving rudeness to reign supreme.
Monday 10 August 2009, 20:24
“The basic difference between being assertive and being aggressive is how our words and behavior affect the rights and well being of others.”
Sharon Anthony Bower
(Sharon Anthony Bower is President of Confidence Training, Inc. and has led communication workshops for large multi-nationals and government agencies.)
Monday 10 August 2009, 20:41
It’s good to know that we (Polish) are to be blamed for the Dutch rudness. I’ve heard also recently some guy saying that we have started the 2′nd world war.
Next to the good manners a self reflection is also not a very strong point in a Dutch society. But I guess that these virtues two go hand in hand.
Monday 10 August 2009, 21:03
@M. Kraak
You can be unhappy about Polish in an English way and say:
“It’s quite surprising that our county is so attractive to Polish.” LOL
Or you can express that in a Dutch manner
“klote polen ze moeten stoppen dat al dat tuig ”
I just copy-pasted a random reaction from a random Dutch forum.
I know Holland well enough not to expect anybody to be ashamed for these type of reactions so your commend didn’t surprise me either.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 1:31
After first coming here in 1997 I got a house here in 2000 and began to live here 9 months of the year, returning to the US at Christmas to make things for my family. I am of Swedish origin and was raised in a place (Illinois) where everyone was either Swedish or German and we were either honest or said nothing. The Nederlanders are much the same and I find this a very comfortable environment. The worst I know of is the English who can despise you and pretend to be friends. We have a joke, “Don’t think the English are treating you like a dog, they like dogs.” Things work much better if people are honest/direct rather than evasive and dishonest.
I find these same characteristics among Chinese people, incidently. We have a rich Chinese community in Amsterdam.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 10:42
Well having lived here for 36 years I do not find the Dutch rude. They are direct and honest. You do know where you stand unlike the British. When an Englishman says you must come around to my house you know he is meaning; please do not come. The Dutch would never be so devious. I agree with comment 29. You can never trust a Brit. The same goes for the French. Germans are similar to Dutch but slightly less direct. I have once again been married for four years to an Irish woman who has lived here now for five years. She was surprised in the begining but now she appreciates it now. Irish people are even worse than English.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 17:02
Lived here three years, from New Zealand with Dutchy ancestory.
The Dutch are for sure less tactfull than those raised in UK/Aus/NZ. That being said in many situations it can be good to really know where you stand with someone rather than the facade of polite white lies. Especially at work.
There is however, a difference between lack of tact and being rude. Unfortuntately, I and many of my expat friends have noticed examples of behaviour from the average dutchy that would be frowned upon in other parts of the world.
Specific examples that keep cropping up are:
- on public transport (pushing past people getting in trains and going up/down escalators, giving up seats)
- the average level of hospitality service (the customer is for the most part alway wrong in this country)
I’m still here so I can handle it, but if I could encourage the Dutch to change some how it would be around these things. Just because everyone else in this country does it doesn’t mean you have to.
Break the cycle!
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 17:07
from a dutch woman who left 30 yrs ago: i miss the directness and appreciate a frank expression, but i think generally dutch thinking and opining is rather black and white and mostly rational.
with women my age (60s) there is a more extended and nuanced emotional vocabulary.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 17:17
am french expat since 3 years here and still nobody offered me a drink so far, which is standard behavior in any other country in europa.
the worst is that with the time i am turning rude myself. the country is really going to the dog. I have a lot of sympathy for my polish and moroccan alike. Next time i see a dutch in france he won’t have to expect any respect from me, so he better behave.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 17:41
I think that the Dutch may be rude, but I think its merely an exercise of their freedom, and also their obligation. Consider that some people may find Dutch rude as they are quick to yell at you for breaking the law or some unwritten rule, such as not waiting for everyone to disembark the train before entering or walking on the cycle paths. The second being that the Dutch are allowed to say what they want, they know they have that right and so can say it. Its not for nothing that The Hague is the legal capital of the world.
Tuesday 11 August 2009, 23:31
@Scot Dutchy,
Clearly you have an opinion on everyone, how disappointing that you decided to express your worst opinions here instead of supporting your belief that the Dutch are not rude with some positive examples. Perhaps people assume you’re Dutch and you’re doing everything to bolster this image of rudeness amongst the Dutch by mis-representing them?
I am amazed your Irish wife puts up with such a bigoted individual – not only did you confuse British and English, you even managed to demean her by comparing her race in an inferior manner to another (whether she be of The Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland – I assume you know the difference?).
Your opinion is worthless sir but please carry on making a fool of yourself.
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 0:50
The directness of the Dutch, can be noticed best while swearing. the emotinal content of a single swearword requires at least 4 whole sentences in Italian or Spanish.
As for Polish immigrant discrimination by the Dutch as Polak Maly discribes. I have many Polish employees working for me and i treat the same as Dutchmen. There might even be more Polish people in my direct environment, which I respect and trust than Dutchmen. And i certainly know for sure i am not the only one that thinks that way. It’s rather ignorant to generalise this based on some quotes you find on internet. What do people write more about on internet, good or bad aspects? Just google michael Jackson and you will find the answer, by seeing more hits about his accusions of child abuse than about his whole popstar career.
The Dutch do not like people who group up too much and don’t mingle as Stuart already discibed. It creates suspicion. The Dutch aspire and basicly force upon all, a muli-cultural environment where you must integrate so much, that you must give up most of your own.I grew up knowing when i would see a white minivan with Polish plates, bicyles and cars in the neighborhood got stolen the same day. Some Polish thugs ruined the image with the Dutch the previous decenium and it will require some more effort from the Polish community in the Netherlands to improve that image. The Dutch are only emotionaly hostile and have prejudices against Germans, due to some particular historical events.
I heard the postbus 51 radio commercial today, and they are right, the Dutch can be so associal without actually knowing they are being like that.
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 11:24
@ francis
Don’t worry you do not have to. Have YOU bought anyone a drink? While in Paris I did buy the people that I talked to drinks & yes they bought me (a) drink(s) aswell. Actually we became friends. I was in Nice & Cannes aswel, strange but fun. Same for Spain/Greece/Germany and the USA. Lots of friends & lots of places to lay my head if necessary.
Remember I am that ‘rude’ dutch person.
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 15:27
Ugh, quite surprised at Karen’s (from UK) comment. Having lived in London for 6 years and having travelled within the UK, I think service in the UK is much worse than in Holland.
In Holland people behind the cash registers can actually add and subtract and you don’t have to wait 5 hours until they find out that you HAVE given them the right change all along. They also tend to think along/for you, FRIENDLY suggesting things you might need or have forgotten.
Service in England is very impersonal and shoddy. And most rude! Cashiers talk amongst themselves, ignoring the customers or are talking on thier phones via their headsets finishing it off by not even telling you the total cost of your shopping. They just stick out their hands, look at you with a gormless expression and expect you to find out for yourself on the screen of the til!
If you have a question they don’t know UK shop assistants will tell you so. But you have to ask them whether they can find out, no initiative of their own to go and find out at all. They are just not bothered.
I have never experienced that in Holland!
Working in customer service in the UK ppl often comment on my good (Dutch!) standards of service that goes above and beyond what they are used to!
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 15:40
Ps. There are loads of newspaper articles in the UK that suggest that a lot of posh restaurants in the UK hire european waiters/esses because the native English have fallen out of the habit of providing good service. lol
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 17:40
I’ve lived in The Netherlands for 10 years now. As a Scot, I have to say I’ve not noticed any greater level of directness or rude behaviour than I was used in Scotland. I would say though, that I have found the Dutch often very surprised to receive directness by way of return from a foreigner – leading to much muttering and remonstrating.
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 18:53
I agree with Mark. I’m Canadian and lived for four years in Zeist with my Dutch wife. My neighbours, friends and family treated me with respect and patience as I learned Dutch. I felt at home from the start and had no trouble shopping or while on travel. Part of me still walks the mart in Utrecht on Saturdays.
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 19:52
The most respected form of journalism is the hardest one: the one that tries to unite, not divide. Since this discussion takes place in a (respected) Dutch Newspaper, I’d love to see another article on: “What is positive about the Dutch?”, “What are some traits that we can learn or benefit from?”. Thank you, Christoph Driessen, if you can make that happen!
Wednesday 12 August 2009, 19:54
Well, I’ve lived here for twenty years and teach Dutch students between 18 and 24. For me the problem is these kids think they have the right to question everything and anything in a remarkably blunt way. It takes me quite some time to get into into their heads that their behaviour and manners would be unacceptable in many other countries. They start listening when I explain they might lose a business contract. But more importantly they are generally friendly, open, and good-humoured.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 5:15
As an american who has travelled many years through europe, i have noticed this clear allegation of “rudeness” amongst dutchmen. In fact, the reason i found this webpage is because i googled “rude dutch” to see if i was alone or if there is some truth. In my experience, the american expression always holds truE, “when there is smoke, there is fire”. in my travels, I have always noticed patterns here and there between nations. One thing I can say is that in my experiences, austria and the netherlands at times cleary offered a random shopkeeper or waiter that was EXTRTEMELy RUDE. This is in great contrast to, for example, londers who over and over again smile and offer assistance to wandering strangers. Many eastern european countries also have a comforting warmness to them, as does italy and even, yes, france.
dont get me wrong…. it would not be fair to bash the dutch merely because i noticed an increased level of rudeness when most other times the dutch were very normal. its just that to me, it seems as if i have experienced greater numbers of rude experiences in holland versus other places.
For example:i entered a quiet little grocery store. i was the only one in the store. i walked up to the cold drinks and grabbed a can of beer. i walked over to the counter, said “hallo!” and placed the beer down on the counter. The worker was fiddling with a price gun. in silence, perhaps 30-40 seconds went buy until i asked, “how much is this?” and he replied, “I dont know” and continued fiddling with his faulty price gun sticker woes. another 10-20 seconds of silence passed and he finally put the gun down, began to walk over to ther register. he suddenly paused, and returned to fiddle with the gun. at this time, another customer walked in. I left the beer on the counter and walked out quietlt.WHATS UP WITH THAT?
on anther occassion , i was in an internet coffee bar. I think it was 3 euros per 20 minutes. I used 25 minutes, walked up to the bar girl and told her that i used 5 extra minutes and asked her how much i owed her. she made a face, as if i just asked her for the world, as in disgust snapped back, “oh just give me the 3 euros!” HELLO!?!?
on another occassion, i was waiting at a bar with money in hand for the bar girl to ask me what id like to drink. after being ignored for a few minutes while the girl chatted with a friend, she finally turned to me with a rude face and said “if you want something to drink, you come to me, i dont go to you!”
now look, i have a lot of respect for cultural differences and certainly know that americans are not without fault but there is very little any dutch apologist can say to justify this kind of behavior
Thursday 13 August 2009, 10:47
OK so what can we all agree to w/ regards to the ‘dutch’? (according to our future queen ‘dutch’ does not exist) Some are less friendly than others? Some are less helpfull than others? Some things may be a purely individual experience but can anything be said of the ‘dutch’ that is always true?
I have one: I myself am always appalled by the way people board trains. On that particular issue I must agree & it could be seen as a general deficiency in courtiousness.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 17:05
A lot of this ‘Dutch’ rudeness comes from dutch ignorance about the very subject they’re trying to be direct about. They need to understand the concept that sometimes NOT giving their opinion is ok, especially when they don’t know enough about the subject.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 17:37
I don’t find the Dutch any ruder than the English or anybody else. If somebody gets up my nose by saying the wrong thing I shut them out and never utter a single word to them again until they apologise and correct their manners-wherever they’re from! Everybody knows the difference between rude and polite, everybody knows the difference between right and wrong. If you can’t say anything polite keep your mouth shut and don’t talk to anybody.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 18:43
I recently had the unmitigated pleasure of getting to know the debating team from the University of Leiden, at the European Debating Competition where they won the sub-competition between speakers of English as a Second Language. While I’d be willing to go so far as to call them ‘gregarious’, maybe even ‘loud’ I don’t think I’ve met a friendlier more enthusiastic bunch. They happily taught me and anyone else nearby enough Dutch to sing along with them as they supported their fellow students in the ESL final and I’ve never seen anyone take to karaoke with as much zeal. While I can appreciate the general demeanor might cause some discomfort in the excessively prim, I must say the experience of spending a weekend amid the Dutch has left a distinctly warm impression of the Netherlands with me. But then maybe the Scots and the Dutch are both as rude as one another. If so, I could think of far worse company to keep.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 18:53
I don’t think it’s intentional, but yes the Dutch are often rude by English/US standards.
Every country has its own standards of politeness.
Behaviours I notice here that lead me to conclude the Dutch are rude
- boarding of public transport without letting people off (which is stupid as well as rude)
- never saying sorry – after three months of Dutch lessons I asked my teacher how to say sorry in Dutch, I literally had not heard the word used.
- no idea of privacy, colleagues ask me what I consider to be personal questions (they’ve got used to me answering “for me that’s too personal, can I skip to the next question please”)
But none of these things are rude to other Dutch people – it’s just one of those cultural things that make living in other countries so interesting.
Thursday 13 August 2009, 22:52
I don’t feel dutch people are rude. The english people are most superficial people in world and their politeness is superficial as well. So who are the English to judge dutch of any thing?
Is being direct equal to being Rude? I must say people need to respect dutch for being Dutch as we respect English for being english
Friday 14 August 2009, 1:18
First of all I want to say that I think that the way one experiences a city and a culture is depending on the situation that you are in at the moment; where you are in your life.
But having said that, and having lived many years in Amsterdam, I must say that there will always be something that I find difficult in there: And that is that people, generally speaking, are friendly on the surface – but in a kind of way that often to me seems adopted and even sometimes acted. I really miss, and have always missed, a REAL, sincere connection to people. It is as if the most accepted thing is to stay on the surface; and if something is slightly on the edge then people get insecure.
I don’t think that people are so rude though. But it depends: In certain shops, especially in touristic areas, the shop owners can be extremely rude and unfriendly, and seem to be extremely focused on getting your money, and selling you crap.
Another thing is that the Dutch are really not elegant people. They are so rough in their way -even the way of dressing and moving through the city. This comes across as blunt and sometimes rude.
Of course there are exceptions. I do know a few very special and sincere people in Amsterdam.
But I must say that now when I live in France I feel much more at easy with my surroundings. And I’m from Scandinavia!
Friday 14 August 2009, 9:39
Dear Editor. When in HM Armed Forces, I served alongside the Dutch on several occasions. After retirement, I met Dutch families whilst on holiday in France. I invariably found the Dutch warm-hearted and good company, to the point of sharing meals en famile. The national characteristic of directness is a strength when the time available is limited as in operations or when you only have a couple of weeks to get to know each other. I enjoy the Dutch independence of spirit and ahve great respect for the people. Please don’t change, or get too introspective.
Friday 14 August 2009, 9:48
Dear Al @ 51. I lived on Lidingo for 3 years. In Stockholm I came across the same reaction you describe from some vendors and people, who resented my presence in Sweden. I guess that in every nation there is always a minority who are bigoted. The vast majority of people were friendly, proud of their country and very inclusive. One can never judge a nation by the inhabitants of a city, world-wide, city slickers are the same.
Friday 14 August 2009, 12:32
Another thing to ad is that when you speak Dutch then shop owners are generally much more friendly to you. . If they think you’re a tourist they often do not look at you with open eyes, but rather have some preformed idea about you, and about what you want.
This was hard to deal with in the beginning when first having moved to Amsterdam.
I would ask a by passer if he could suggest a nice restaurant in the area, and then he would send me off to Leidseplein!
It’s like that in all cities to a certain extend, but back when being new in Amsterdam I felt less treated as an individual by local people than I have ever tried in other capitals where I have lived (even if I wouldn’t speak the local language in any of these cities).
By the years I integrated, and now I feel home in Amsterdam.
I even love Amsterdam. And there is something special about this foggy always cloudy and rainy city. It’ so strange. There is lot’s of green which is nice..But even so, everything is so artificial. It’s a strange, and very dreamy place.
Rotterdam is very different. I generally find people more direct and sincere there, at least in my experience. But I have never lived there, so of course it’s hard to really have an elaborated opinion about.
Friday 14 August 2009, 12:36
Oh yes I completely agree with Grumpy old man. And this is why I speak about Amsterdam, because this is what I know the best. And different from many other places in Netherlands.
Certain things are the same all over Netherlands I think, the kind of straight and very practical attitude towards clothing and speaking.
Friday 14 August 2009, 16:32
I think the best way to describe the Dutch sensibility toward honesty and directness is as tactless. An expatriate living in Rotterdam, I have been witness to an astonishing number of racist comments made by Native Dutch people who are otherwise friendly and well-educated. When I’ve called them out on this, they merely assert their right to an opinion, often completely disregarding the sensitivities of those around them. Certainly the Dutch are a friendly, unpretentious people, and yet it has yet to be proven for me that any Dutch person knows when to hold their tongue in respect of those around them.
There are furthermore certain traits I’ve noticed, I think deriving from this sense of individualism and freedom which is so part of the Dutch identity, that appear selfish. Once, as I was locking my bike amongst several others, I knocked over a row of other bikes. Struggling to stand them back up again, I was stopped by a Dutch man who told me I have no responsibility to do so, as it was the fault of the other bike owners for not standing theirs correctly. Similar to other comments here, I have noticed a resounding lack of courtesy in other areas of public life, the bus/metro being one, and most particularly queues at grocery stores, where people quite un-apologetically walk in front of me in line.
Friday 14 August 2009, 16:34
OK so we can dump this on the pile of cucumber time news (gherkin maybe). We call it komkommertijd nieuws. When there is nothing happening in the world but the newspaper or newsbroadcast has to publish/broadcast something/anything with a whiff of news to fill up the paper/broadcast.
Nice to see that once the ‘op de pik getrapt’ translated to ‘trampled on the penis’ (easily offended) people had left the debate the overall feeling about dutch people is actually quite good. Yes some reservations have been uttered but the “Dutch people: direct or just plain rude?” question the debate started with should be answered with ‘DIRECT’.
Can anyone tell me if the following is rude or direct: I noticed 2 people using sign-language of which one could hear. I waited for a break in their conversation & asked (my mouth clearly visible) whether sign-language was universal or different per country. I was told that most gestures are in fact universal and some gestures are language based.
Friday 14 August 2009, 17:02
the dutch are not rude, they are “BOT” (rough, crude, raw, abrupt).
Friday 14 August 2009, 18:57
I have traveled to The Netherlands many times. It is my favorite place. I’m from the Southwest in the USA and I find the diversity of Holland one of it’s special attributes. I have stayed in B&B’s owned by Dutch, Italian, English, Canadian and Belgian immigrants. I have spent many hours conversing with people from all over the world now living there. I would have to say the differences between them are minor. It was a little harder convincing the Dutch couple that I didn’t really need breakfast, but I feel that was because they are a very generous people. I’ve have only met 1 person there I didn’t like and he was a drunk on a bus. I couldn’t tell you his nationality because his speech was so slurred.
I’m not some good looking, with lots of money type guy that everyone wants to be around. I’m just an old fat artist, who likes to smile and say hello to everyone. And every culture I’ve met there, be it for business or walking on through the Albert Cuypt Maart likes a smiling person. Everyone there, like everywhere else, is different, unique and worth meeting. I even found the Middle Easterners I’ve met in Coffeeshops, stores and all around the country to be just as friendly and welcoming to talk to.
The problem I see is the frame of mind tourist come with. They seem to be expecting the worst from everyone and end up being rude teh rude ones.. And they wonder why some are rude to them.
Personally, I think it’s more what you show to the world is what the world is going to show to you.
As for service received from wait staff and sales people! No one is perfect! Everyone has a bad day now and then! And it happens in every country!
When it comes to the dutch directness. I’d rather deal with an honest direct person than some one who does know how to express their thoughts or requirements without adding a bunch of soap opera drama to life.
Friday 14 August 2009, 19:33
I first visited Rotterdam to see its owner’s of crude molasses terminal, in early 1970s. I was a guest of Dutch owner’s of the terminal. At my hotel I was introduced to Dutch Herring – by the tail! It was a fascinating exposure to Dutch business and culture, at the time.
[I was manager of OECD Ethanol project after 1974 oil crisis.]
Now I’ve retired and resident in Nederlands…
From my learning of Dutch culture and history from Simon Schama’s *The Embarrassment of Riches*, I conclude that Dutch Liberal Party is principally responsible for what I call the *moral decadence* of a once brilliant culture…by its persistent policy of liberalizing all and every aspect of daily Dutch family life. Schools today are raising hooligans with no respect for their elders or society. The Liberal Party madness is also responsible, methinks, for destroying what Simon Schama describes as a society based not on hereditary classes or previlege(ie. UK & France) but social equality. Dutch society was not built on an aristocratic class of rulers…but commoners.
Liberals have decimated Dutch culture and heritage with their foolish and unsustainable belief in liberalizing and destroying what originally made Dutch culture so proud!
PS. Take a look at Sweden and the historical fate of thier Liberal Party under Social Democratic rules and principles.
Monday 17 August 2009, 23:35
I am a frequent British visitor to the Netherlands & I have generally found the Dutch people to be a very polite bunch!
Tuesday 18 August 2009, 6:19
I am Dutch and I like the fact that we ‘Say what we think’ – it makes life so much easier. What is the point of not saying the thruth?
I am reading here that people say that the Dutch teenagers have no respect etc. – That’s merely the parents fault, and just a small part with the ‘system’. I normaly wait in line to get in public transportation, but when everybody is pushing and I end up at the end with standing for 2 hours, then I start pushing myselve. Is this rude? yes it is, but….that is the Dutch way (at this moment)
Wednesday 19 August 2009, 12:10
I’m an American that has lived in the Netherlands for just over a year, but I have also lived in the New Zealand and the UK as well as having traveled extensively.
I would call the Dutch rude, but that is because I hold them to the expectations of my culture (or the culture of many, many other countries). But, in the Dutch culture the individual and her or his opinion is generally regarded above the feelings of others. So according to these standards they are merely “normal”.
Wednesday 19 August 2009, 17:51
I have been an expat for 45 years and I still am.My wife is Japanese and she thinks I am rude.Disagreeing with her would be even more rude.
Thursday 20 August 2009, 10:16
There is no such thing as “just plain rude”. Rudeness is very much culturally denominated and as such there is absolutely no universal or global or absolute definition of rudeness, and especially not of “just plain rudeness”. Therefore, this whole forum discussion becomes somewhat pointless – it all depends of any reader’s definition of rudeness how he or she sees this issue.
The person above who complained about “the Dutch” not standing up for her and her babe in arms in a tram/bus in Amsterdam should realize that, if she was lucky, only about 30 to 40 percent of those sitting there were likely to be actually Dutch, and I am being very conservative in this estimate….
Thursday 20 August 2009, 11:11
#65 You have to agree that a lot of our youngsters are not being raised properly & most will never give up their seat. (thank god 4 exceptions)
Also of dutch people is being asked to spy on other peoples possibly improperly obtained posessions. (ratting) I bet this will create a ‘happy’ and friendly bunch of people.
Friday 21 August 2009, 4:00
dutch rude? maybe more like i do not care attitude on what you think about my opinion. take it or leave it. as a dutchman living abroad since 1997 find – when i come back to holland – the average dutchman/woman self indulgent, it is me and no one else, not very relaxed and open when a stranger wants to talk to them. when i go to a pub and want to converse with someone i dnt know..you get a look like” what the hell do you want”. when i grew up i never had that feeling. i never have this in asia.. people are polite, will answer back, talk to you but on the other hand they also not always give up their seat to elderly people or pregnant women.
Friday 21 August 2009, 20:28
I don’t think the problem can be confined to whether the dutch are rude or not.
It actually goes way deeper than that; the sad truth is that they have become extremely asocial, selfish and shallow, and that is a sure recipe for disaster.
If you pay a little attention you will notice they are overstressed and are only waiting for anyone to make a mistake so they can release the steam building up inside them.
Cyclists, drivers, walkers…they’re all out there trying to eat each other faces! how can they live like this?
it’s ME,ME,ME all the way, no consideration for other FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS, no empathy.
The only values dominating here are social status, predomination, denigration…it’s really the quintessence of sick western capitalism taken to its furthest limits.
I never catch anybody reading a book, but shops are packed with consumers buying fruitless products: they’d rather read the labels on their new clothes than feed their souls on worthy items.
Can this really make them happy? To be the final product of this mtv-society?
Saturday 22 August 2009, 10:19
At first I believed the text books that described the problem as “directness” rather than rudeness. However, after having lived in Amsterdam for more than 10 years and now had the good sense to get out, I can tell you it really is rudeness.
My awakening to it was after my very first day at work. I got on a tram at the front instead of the back and told by the driver he wasn’t stamping my ticket because he wasn’t my secretary! On another through journey the opposite – my ticket grabbed from my hand on the second bus and unnecessarily stamped again meaning I’d paid twice. When I complained apparently it was now my problem not his. These are very minor issues though compared to the rudeness you will encounter when you need service. Because in the big cities service does not exist. Staff are there to be paid an income not to actually do any work for you. It is made very clear they are not your servant. It is observed everywhere – from supermarkets (and in-particular one almost monopolist chain) to big builders to doctors.
No, don’t believe what the textbooks tell you. The Dutch may have a certain directness but what I see in these situations is quite different: it really is downright rudeness. What’s more it happens mainly in big cities which makes me think it is not so much to do with Dutch traits as possibly being in too good a social state for far too long – where staff are virtually unsackable, where benefit and unemployment money was for years unbelievably high and unemployment until recently very low.
In-fact I’d go further and add selfishness and arrogance to the “new” traits. This was confirmed to me one day when right by the Rokin, a central street, three cyclists confronted two others emerging from a bridge to the right. Not one was going to give way to the other even though it was quite obvious what was going to happen. The resulting pile up was most amusing as they shouted at each other and tried to extricate their bent wheels.
Monday 24 August 2009, 15:07
I’m an american. Just finished my masters at the univeristy of amsterdam. Was in holland for a year and half.
I think its fair to call the Dutch ‘rude’ overall. Generally speaking i don’t buy the “they are just direct/honest argument.” Children are also very direct and honest but the inability to control ones emotional outbursts is precisely what separates mature adults from children.
That said, i don’t think its very precise or nuanced to explain the Dutch as “rude.” I think a better description of their personalities would be “indifference” or “apathy” at least with regard to foreigners.
I also noticed, and this is true of any country, that the further away from amsterdam you get, the friendlier the Dutch become. Same is true everywhere.
Not only am i an American, but i’m southern at that. From Tennessee. For those who don’t know, in American culture southerners are known to be polite to a fault. Its just the way we are raised. Its part of the culture here. There really is a culturally conditioned sense among southerners that “politeness” goes hand in hand with “breeding.” What i mean is, being rude to a stranger here would be interpreted above all as some sort of character flaw, as a lack of any sort of pedigree. In other words, the less polite you are, the less manners you have, the lower your social class.
I also lived in Japan for a while. I doubt anyone would expect to find a connection between southern culture and japanese culture, but i did notice some remarkable similarities. The Japanese, like many southerners, are polite to a fault. Also like southerners, the politeness is not always or even often completely genuine, its more of an obligation. For japanese and southerners, being rude to strangers is the quickest way i know of to indicate that you have no class, no breeding.
I will say this, though, for all the talk of French rudeness, especially toward American tourists, i went to paris 3 times during my stint in amsterdam, not speaking a word of French, and i can’t recall once being treated rudely. In amsterdam, however, though it was never very extreme, rudeness was an almost daily event.
Monday 24 August 2009, 22:40
As a Dutch woman and married to an expat I can tell you this is not an easy question.
I am tempted to rule the Dutch rude, but a lot of the arguments mentioned above are the very things I get annoyed about myself. The not letting people off the tram or bus before getting on it yourself is something that just didn’t happen in my youth. And no I am not *that* old.
The skipping line in the supermarket, or even talking back to a person when confronted with unsocial behaviour…
A part of it is the difference in culture, we do ask personal questions and it is not always to not answer, even for a Dutch person. We do not always say thank you enough or ‘beg your pardon’ or even ‘excuse me’, however shop assistants talking or texting while scanning your purchases is one of my own pet hates’.
Then there is indeed the argument of what is a typical ‘dutch person’? Anyone with a sound answer to that question should maybe think about a political career!
Monday 24 August 2009, 22:46
I see now in the earlier posts that the allochtonen argument has come up here as well.
@ all the Poles: if it is any consolation: it will pass. There will be a new black sheep at some point in time. (I know it’s not a consolation and I do feel the need to say sorry for stupid remarks even in newspapers.) It really is not what everyone thinks! There are people who actually find all those different cultures a blessing.
Tuesday 25 August 2009, 8:39
I think they are rude, they dont have much sensitivity or sense of appropriateness in many circumstances, and the notion of ‘tact’ seems to be missing. They are also not ‘that’ honest either, but maybe connecting ‘directness’ to ‘honesty’ is a mistake here. I am used to people being assertive and confident without being rude, here they seem to think being assertive and confident ‘requires’ being rude (tactless directness). This is a generalisation, I have met and know many lovely dutch people, but on the whole……. dutch culture seems to hold many contradictions, one is that ‘we are direct’ while at the same time many people only use that directness to make personal comments about others but are not direct when its actually needed.
Tuesday 25 August 2009, 23:41
The issue of Dutch rudeness is in my opinion better explained as hypocrisy. I live(d) as a foreigner in the NL for 13 years, coming from an ex-Communist country, traveled the whole world, and I have never seen a Volk as rude AND hypocrite as the Dutch. I somehow start to prefer the brutal old Communist way: at least those people were rude, but did never claim they were superior, or tolerant, or anything like that. In some sense, they had the guts to assume their (human) condition that the Dutch are too scared (or hypocrite) to do.
Wednesday 26 August 2009, 1:49
I am an expat living in The Netherlands for 10 years. Taking in consideration what I read before, their ‘directness’ is not to be taken as rudeness. I will then pass my thoughts on the Dutch people in a similar ‘direct’ manner. Not only Dutch people are rude, they are peasants, stingy, selfish, thick, shallow, basic, uneducated, uncultured, dirty, inelegant, ignorant, dishonest and devoid of any sense of humor.
Wednesday 26 August 2009, 10:33
I have lived here for seven years. Like any other Western country, depending on what part of the country you live, people act differently because of overcrowding. Coming from the United States myself, we all know what it is like when our space is cramped, we get rude too. Take New York for instance, plenty of rude people there. So, to judge the whole of Netherlands as everyone being rude, is absolutely a fabrication of ones fantasy. You have nice people and you have rude people like anywhere else. I find people in Amsterdam more in a hurry and more edgy when it is too crowded. In Breda, everyone here is pretty relaxed and polite. So again, it depends on where you live.
Thursday 27 August 2009, 16:40
I’ve lived in Holland for over 30 years and have given up trying to understand the people that live in this small country – there seems to be a division of nice, friendly, intelligent and tolerant people that seem to have fled the country over the last couple of years as I don’t see them around anymore… leaving a rather large group of opinionated, arrogant, badly mannered and not very aware humans that mostly seem to be on the point of some sort of mental breakdown if you observe their public behaviour .. I’m fleeing too!! Goodbye!!
Thursday 27 August 2009, 21:17
The Dutch like to say they are the most tolerant, and honest and direct people in the world, but in no other multicultural society have I seen such intolerance. Unfortunately their tolerance consists of avoiding the others. Supposedly they are the most open minded people, but it escapes me how such open minded people can be so racist at the same time. If you are non-Western (but in fact we can also add the Eastern Europeans), no self- respecting Dutch person will have any genuine interest in you. They will just see you as a bloodsucker who has come to take profit of their fabulous social system. If you happen to have the wrong nationality, or the skin color you are basically screwed. Your only bet is to make friends with other expats. They are peasants and this peasant mentality still continues. Even the richest Dutchmen will go on camping holidays not to spend money. They have no style either, one of the richest EU members and they don’t know how to dress up.
Dating the Dutch is terribly difficult. You will just have to live with an emotionally unavailable person. Not only that but you will have to go to their “parties” where no one really dances.
Colleagues are another thing. If after 4 years you get to learn the name of their children, you should be really lucky. They will never let you in their cliques.
Overall, they are uninspiring people who lead boring lives, and should only procreate with each other to produce boring children.
Friday 28 August 2009, 13:08
My experience, after living here 3 years…
rude at times. Yes. Direct. Yes. I come from a culture (American) where politeness is taken to extreme. It gets annoying to me to shop in my own home country with someone asking me ‘can I help you with anything there?’ just as I walk in the store.
Food shopping and driving int he NL is an ‘every man for themselves’ mentality. Nobody will say ‘excuse me’ to reach across in front of you to grab that loaf of bread you were just about to pick up. Nobody will get their card out of your way if they see you approaching, even if they are taking up the entire aisle with it. Backing out of a car spot? If the Dutchy doesn’t require it…he/she will NOT think twice about zooming past you forcing you to slam on your brakes. Politeness doesn’t exist in some cases.
The direct-ness is ok..but sometimes..some things are better left un-said.
Sunday 30 August 2009, 3:33
“Bugger anyone who thinks differently”
Pim Fortuyn did that quite literally sometimes. In his own words; “I go to bed with them, sir.”
Sunday 30 August 2009, 16:52
Yes they are. I was surprised by the lack of manners when I first arrived and always when I’m back from a trip abroad. In this country, almost no one in front of you holds the door for you; when walking, people are bumping into you without a word; young people are burping in public and find it funny or normal; while waiting to embarq or at a counter, here or abroad, if the line is not clear or the rules well establish, if there is a Dutch, he will always try to pass in front of you to be the first.
Monday 31 August 2009, 13:37
I am a dutch expat from birth and have lived everywhere but grew up in New York. I presently work in London and live in Italy. The brits say that the english are to polite to be honest and that the dutch are to honest to be polite. In general I think this is true , but I must say that dutch society has become more intolerant over the years and that together with their directness has created a whole new acidic form of honesty. Some things are better to be polite about. I also have to add that the dutch have a very new york yiddish style of humor
which can be attribute to rudeness. If an amsterdam
bus driver says when asked to stamp a bus ticket
-kan je dat niet self doen ik heb geen polio- than that is considered shocking to any foreigner but to
a person from Holland self explanatory.
Tuesday 1 September 2009, 10:26
Wish upon an incurable disease.
It is somewhat like ‘death to america’ in Iran & Go f@#k yo momma in the USA.
The dutch just have their thing about diseases & think when translated word 4 word is comprehended as Go f@#h yo momma.
Go figure!
Tuesday 1 September 2009, 13:55
Why are many of you so hostile towards other people? Let’s focus on what everybody on this planet has in common instead of pointing out differences. Live and let live. Also, if you focus on bad things, bad things you will see. Let’s focus on something more positive please. Besides it makes no sense to me that 16 million people could all be the same.
Wednesday 2 September 2009, 6:28
In many societies being direct equals being rude. A Javanese never says “no,” only “maybe” or “maybe tomorrow.” The Dutch believe in being direct, as they consider it being honest, but there are many regional and class differences in politeness and courtesy. But this is what a survey stated: “Just over half of Dutch people who live abroad consider their compatriots at home less well-mannered than other nationalities, according to research for Dutch world service radio.”
Cultural sensitivity may also not be a Dutch trait. When Queen Beatrix (a former neighbour in Leiden) visited Indonesia on the anniversary of Indonesia’s independence, she visited its government with —- a Friesian cow. Who picked that present?
Wednesday 2 September 2009, 16:23
The Netherlands is the only country (as far as I know) where they have managed to make a curse word from an entire nationality. Those who lived there or are still living here like I do (for now), know what I mean by this. I am a Turkish fellow born in the Netherlands and it’s only in here where I have this misplaced sense of shame for being Turk. I have thought allot why I had this only in the Netherlands and then it stuck me, it’s because being Turk or being called Turk is actually a curse word…can you imagine that? Everywhere in the world I can be proud to be called Turk except in the Netherlands, because it’s almost like something wrong or bad…talking about psychological warfare at it’s finest.
Wednesday 2 September 2009, 20:38
Do I think the Dutch are rude? Yes and no. The Dutch are very opinionated and always ready to voice their thoughts unasked. They are inhibited in their critique, but in the same time they are quite happy to agree to differ. My neighbours and I vote for political opposites, but that doesn’t stop us from getting along or joking about politics on a nearly daily basis. When I arrive home, or leave the house, I always get comments from the drunken people outside the café. Many of these comments are teases. A witty reply (or a cheerful counter insult) is requested and then all is well. So far so good.
The problems start when the Dutch speak English or when foreigners learn a little Dutch. Very often the Dutch forget or ignore that international etiquette is different. And internationally, yes, the Dutch can be perceived as very rude.
I had to learn a few things myself. The British answer to ‘how are you?’ is ‘very-well-thank-you-and-how-are-you?’ to which (blissfully) no further reply is expected. But my Italian friends will actually answer with a long list of medical complaints. This inhibits me to ask Italians how they are, but the question cannot be omitted. If you want to get along with Italians, you have to ask and hear them out, before any other subject is touched upon.
In most meetings with foreigners, I let them decide when we stop the chitchat and get to business. I know the Dutch (me included) tend to come to business way too fast.
Wednesday 2 September 2009, 20:44
@86. Proud Turk.
EXPRESSIONS
In English we speak of Dutch butter (rancid butter), Dutch courage (alcohol), Dutch agreement (drunken decision), Dutch treat (no treat), Dutch leave (abandoning your post without permission, very appropriate again after Srebrenica), double Dutch (gibberish) etc.
I have never been offended by these terms, since they stem from days when nationalism was the norm and xenophobia was encouraged. It doesn’t offend me that the expressions are still in common use.
Turk on the coast (trouble ahead), driving like a Turk (bad driving), dressed like a Turk (bad taste), act like a Turk (lack of composure), dirty tark (with ‘tark’ deriving ‘Turk?’) are all old Dutch expressions, which are linguistically no longer associated with actual Turks.
BLACKFACE
However, there is an old Dutch tradition that intends no offense, but still inspires bigotry; Zwarte Piet (blackface). Strangely enough the people who are most offended by Zwarte Piet are not Turks or Moroccans, but American tourists and ex-pats. The blackface reminds them of American slavery.
But Zwarte Piet is not black because of supposed slavery. Zwarte Piet is no slave, he is a Moorish servant. Zwarte Piet is a Moroccan! In the 14th century all Muslims were sometimes referred to as Moors, including the Turks. This is how a saint from Turkey (Saint Nicolas) came to be surrounded by Moorish servants.
Not the ancient St Nicolas celebration itself I find offensive, but the fact that the modern Dutch still seem to think that Turks and Moroccans are black Moors. They are not black. Just use your eyes! And yet, schools where a lot of Turkish and Moroccan children study are called ‘black’ schools. Appalling racism! Still calling Turks and Moroccans ‘black’ shows that the Dutch have evolved very little since medieval times. Ages of world trade have not opened their eyes. The blackface the Dutch see on Morrocans and Turks exists only in the eye of the beholder.
Thursday 3 September 2009, 11:01
I have been living here in Holland for almost a year now. I am from America, raised by 1st generation Puerto Rican in Manhattan and Long Island. I give you this info because if anyone knows about NYC and LI you’d know I grew up in a city where people will YELL at you if you walk to slow in front of them or mistakenly walk in front of a taxi (picture the taxi driver yelling at you and waving his fist out his window; classic). So, I grew up knowing the difference between being what some call direct and being rude. I do not think it the Dutch that are rude but rather certain people. When I first started working here I worked at a tart cafe and I was amazed at how “rude” people were… In my world if you drop something on the floor of a restaurant, you pick it up, but I noticed people dropping cake, napkins, sugar packets, looking at what they dropped and then continue with their conversation without an “excuse me” and picking up what they dropped. OK. Not everyone can have the same MANNERS. But when I noticed how people ride their bikes around here and will pull into a bikelane without looking behind them to see if there are other cyclists coming their way I said, “WOW, the Dutch are rude!” They aren’t though. I think it’s an age thing and a parental thing across the globe. Younger kids here and in the states tend to have a “F-all” attitude. I say blame their parents for not raising them to have manners. I on the otherhand, prefer people who tell you “like it is” rather than lying to your face”
Now you also have different subcultures as well in the Netherlands. I find people from the north, ie Friesland, to be more honest then those from Amsterdam. But the people from Amsterdam are more willing to say something when confronted and then let it go then those from Rotterdam.
Thursday 3 September 2009, 20:26
I lived in Amsterdam in the early 2000′s and found the Dutch to be exceptionally rude to strangers, but exceptionally loyal to friends.
On the street, however, there seems to be an unspoken list of rules on how to behave:
1) If you are going into a public building (like a bank or cafe) do not hold the door; make sure it shuts behind you, especially on anyone who might try and enter the building behind you.
2) tall men should stand and guard the bar with their life. Do not allow women or smaller men to try and order a drink from said bar.
3) Give your opinion (“you don’t look good today” “why did you do that?”) even if you weren’t asked.
4) when riding your bike, make sure to cut off the person who is riding slower than you.
5) If you work in a cafe, by all means, do not make eye contact with the patrons– they might want something like a coffee or the bill.
Friday 4 September 2009, 23:53
Zwarte Piet, for the record, is black because his face is covered with soot. The nonsense about racism, slavery, Moorish background, and all that, is pure invention and part of the “victim chic” that simply will not die.
Saturday 5 September 2009, 6:59
We visited the Netherlands four times while on vacations; we are from the US. We spent our first vacation entirely for two weeks in Holland and spent several days in Holland the other three of those times after spending 2 weeks in Germany. It was always a pleasure to come “Home” to Holland where service people at places such as a restaurant would give us a smile as compared to unsmiling Germans. I felt comfortable, relaxed and safe in Holland before we continued back to the US when our vacations were finished. Germans are known to be direct; perhaps it is not surprising that Hollanders are too.
I like being spoken to in a direct manner; do not have time for guessing games while on vacation. We did not experience any rudeness, not in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Utrecht, Alkmaar, Mastricht, Arnhem or away from those cities.
Saturday 5 September 2009, 15:50
I’m a Dutchman living in Florence, Italy. Now there are plenty of qualities that Italians have and the Dutch seem to lack, but on my rare trips back to Amsterdam I am always so delighted to be treated with honesty. Regularly I meet Florentines who smile to your face (so-called politeness and good manners) and then they call you names behind your back. They often mistake me for an American tourist, there only to be exploited, not to be nice towards. The looks on their faces when I politely ask them in Italian to repeat their vulgarities, are priceless. Suddenly they are perfect gentlemen again, with their “I’m your best friend” smiles.
Now due to my foreign girlfriend, I’ve sometimes been mistaken for a foreigner in Amsterdam too, but people treated me no less friendly. That is a quality I greatly admire and something that Florentine men could learn from.
Monday 7 September 2009, 14:41
I find people in Amsterdam quite friendly, except I always need to watch out for rogue cyclists. I do think that the Dutch tend to appear quite contradictory, I think they do have high aspirations, but of course cannot always live up to them, and their tolerance is often on condition that “you don’t get too close and bother me”. But as everywhere, if you make the effort to learn the language and enter into the culture with respect (always being prepared to admit you may not understand motives behind behaviour, you begin to not make judgement and learn to live and let live.
Tuesday 8 September 2009, 18:43
If you read the book ‘Foreign to Familiar’ by Sarah A. Lanier, you’ll understand more about the different cultures in the world. She was born in the Middle East, lived in Amsterdam, S. America, etc. and divides the people of the world into ‘hot climate’ cultures and ‘cold climate’ cultures. This includes contrasts about aspects such as ‘relationship vs. task’ orientation; ‘direct vs. indirect’ communication; ‘individualism’ vs. ‘group identity’; and different concepts of hospitality.
I was given this book a few years ago and found it an eye opener. (I am Dutch but have lived in the UK for about 31 years now.)
Wednesday 9 September 2009, 18:31
there is a big difference between ‘city’ people and ‘country’ people
Thursday 10 September 2009, 19:21
Although I’m not an echte allochtoon, I am an ugly-American with een Nederlandse meisje for een echtgenote. So, here we go…The perceived politeness of my country of origin,(USA), as touted by some among you, is generally the facade remaining after our Puritan roots are shaken. After all, you wouldn’t actually consider, “How are you?”, voiced without eye contact, nor the thought of really caring if you get an answer, to be truly polite, now would you? Consider the size of the Netherlands, a country whose borders, whether west to east or north to south, are measured by auto in hours, not days. The Dutch population exceeds that of the state of Florida, with the area of less than two New Jerseys, and twenty (20) percent of the population is not ethnic “Dutch,” if you will. Maybe what you perceive as rude or too direct is only the contraindications from the impending loss of national identity. Same outcry in the U.S. over the growth of a minority populace (that used to own the western half of the country.) They just don’t say, “Vol is vol” in English.
So, DIRECT: My answer is refreshingly, unabashedly, honestly, YES! But it’s not a bad thing. RUDE: I can honestly state, under oath, that I have met really rude societies,(in my ethnocentric perception), and the Dutch are not even remotely in the same league, or perhaps even the same galaxy. You ever tried to get through a roundabout in the middle east? If you’ve been around long enough, look at the actions,collectively, of all our younger people and you’ll see why some people continue talk about the good old days. A last thought: One of the most sacred of rights to a Dutchman is his freedom of speech. Be aware, you have been forewarned.
Friday 11 September 2009, 12:11
Having read the comments here from Dutch people it is quite revealing how they differ!
Ranging from aggrement to sheer denial!
Onattent…asocial…are words and values that clearly exsit here but everyone rebels against. Even old age pesioners. A Dutch friend of mine said once; ‘The dutch treat tourists way better than eachother’ another said to me once ‘if they could sell there grandmother they would’
Freedom of speach, being direct, honest, liberal it’s all good as long as it doesn’t undermine the neccesity of others.
Friday 11 September 2009, 14:57
Being of Dutch background and having done graduate schooling in the Netherlands, I feel that the people/culture is direct but in a good way. However, a condescension can appear in dutch attitudes to others. An example, when I bicycled in the Netherlands with a helmet on and then had the temerity to ask why no one else did, I was gently told that ‘we dutch know how to ride bicycles’! I then made a comment on how many head injuries/fatalities (I believe it is quite high) there are on the fietspaden notwithstanding ‘knowing how to ride bikes’ I was met with stony silence.
Saturday 12 September 2009, 6:24
I am a Afro-American who lived in Dusseldorf, Germany for years and I would visit Holland often. I had a few Dutch friends there and in Germany. I never put the Dutch in the category of being rude. Direct like the Germans and honest something that I valued. In my culture (American) people are very ambiguous and full of it takes forever to get to the point and sometimes they never do. Praise the Dutch keep it up you’re doing nothing wrong. I love your NRC Newsletter
Saturday 12 September 2009, 7:20
Dutch are rude? I never experienced it in my dealings the Dutch. New York City citizens can be a little direct, well, very direct that might be considered rude but you have to remember it used to be called Nieuw Amsterdam. Just kidding.
Sunday 13 September 2009, 18:50
I’m Dutch of portuguese extraction, I have american in-laws, family in germany and spain, I lived and worked abroad (UK, France, Belgium), had a german girlfriend and work with foreign colleagues every day. So I think I can offer an informed opinion (rant)instead of the typical `I was there for 2 days and it sucked/was great’.
Dutch children aren’t really raised to obey a large set of social conventions. The Dutch are informal, and things like writing a thank-you note (as in the UK) is not expected, nor is giving your boss a present (US) after a holiday. This is not being rude, it’s just a cultural difference, as you will find between any two countries in the world. On some occasions they may give you flowers though
Dutch people can be direct, but I’d say Germans or Russians are much more so. If you are from a shame culture (middle-east, asia) this will take some getting used to.
I’ve heard quite a few foreigners complain about a lack of hospitality. If you expect colleagues to invite you over to stay at their place for a month, or even for dinner you may be disappointed, it’s just not part of the culture. It may happen, but only if you really hit it off. Dutch people tend to have a small circle of close friends, instead of an extended family of 200 people, like, say, italians. Dutch people won’t `fix things’ for you if you’re their friend. They play by the rules so there’s no need for that.
Also, it’s not common for people to go to the pub with their colleagues after work three times a week (UK). People tend to stay at home with their families in the evening, there is no `pub culture’.
Then there’s the anti-authoritarian and individualistic attitude of the seventies, which has created some social ambiguity, and there’s also the cultural aspect – the Netherlands, like scandinavian countries, is traditionally egalitarian. If you’re from a class-based society and expect others to grovel when they see a gold watch or expensive car (UK, France, Portugal, 3rd world countries..), you may find this unpleasant. I think of this as an educational experience for you.
Having said that, I’ll agree that service in the Netherlands varies greatly in quality, and the Dutch complain about this as well. I have seen much worse service in other places though – Philadelphia, St Petersburg and the whole of France, Greece and Portugal for example.
When it comes to the large cities in the Netherlands, you see things that you find in all such busy cities, some good and some bad. Both Rotterdam and Amsterdam have a population that’s about 50% of non-dutch extraction, so you will meet people with different ideas of socially acceptable behaviour. Both cities are originally blue-collar port towns, and this is also reflected in the sometimes robust attitudes of the locals. I’m thinking particularly of street-humour/verbal jousting (`Amsterdamse gein’, `Haagse bluf’ etc) which I find annoying, but shouldn’t be taken personally. It’s also not specifically Dutch, Lisbon for example is much, much worse in this respect.
I should also add that these cities, especially Amsterdam, are not typical for the rest of the country. People in, say, Nijmegen, are much more country-ish (ie friendly).
I think that some tourists, especially those from larger countries, have a naive set of expectations. The Rembrandt house does not have a soda machine. You cannot pay with dollars in a non-US country, nor can you call in an airstrike when shopkeepers refuse your currency. Also don’t expect everybody to (pretend to) be fascinated by your country and culture. Unlike, say, Poland, even most smaller cities are home to at least 50 different nationalities, so there’s nothing special about foreigners.
I’d ask all people who’ve lived in the Netherlands for some time and complain about not being accepted, have you made an effort to fit in, to learn the language and culture? Would your own country be welcoming to people who don’t bother to do that? I don’t think so.
Overall I would say it’s quite a good country to live in. You won’t find much of the social lubricant that’s common in the UK/US. But people won’t slam doors in your face or elbow you off the sidewalk either, as they will in Russia. The paranoid xenophobic attitudes common in such places (also insular cultures such as France, Japan) are almost non-existent, and generally deemed unacceptable. Officials (police, customs, security) will treat you well, not like something they scraped off their boots. And nepotism is almost non-existent, compared to southern european countries.
Working in the Netherlands can be stressful though. There’s a culture of bureacracy, and endless meetings for consensus-building. The social ambiguity I mentioned may cause conflicts between managers and employees that would maybe not occur in, say, Germany.
But compared to the neurosis, paranoia and backstabbing of French corporate life it’s sheer heaven. Your french colleagues won’t greet you back in the morning, and they will sneak off to lunch one by one without a word until you’re alone in the office (not just my personal experience).
This is a good example of the mentality:
@33:
“am french expat since 3 years here and still nobody offered me a drink so far,
[..] Next time i see a dutch in france he won’t have to expect any respect from me, so he better behave.”
In short, “Give me a drink or I will act snooty to foreigners forever!!”
I wonder, how will dutch people notice your lack of respect, francis? I’ve been there plenty of times, and worked with french people abroad, and it’s always bad. I’ve witnessed enough ignorance, alcoholism, sexist and racist slurs, toxic nationalism, personal arrogance, body odour, bad driving, antisocial behaviour and even physical violence to last me a lifetime. I’ve heard similar stories even from french people that went back after living abroad. If you think the dutch are rude, spend some time in france and you’ll think again.
Monday 5 October 2009, 15:01
Yes I agree. It’s part of their VOC mentality. It’s all about me, me and me!
Saturday 9 January 2010, 21:43
In Dutch culture it’s considered normal to be blunt and direct. I have lived here all my 26 years and I can’t wait to migrate to another country.
One year ago when I got a new job as designer at a top-notch agency in Amsterdam, I had a meeting with an art director to review my first work for this company. The guy, from the 2nd sentence he uttered completely slaughtered my work without the slightest sense of positivity. This man is the ultimate product of this culture. Proud of his over-the-top arrogance and total rudeness. He’s hated by most colleagues, yet best payed.
I have come to believe that respect and sensibility outweighs (on longer term) the qualities of directness and being straight-forward.
Sure, skipping chit chat and being straight-forward has its qualities. But if you have to live or work in any community, it surely makes you a happier person if you don’t have to be on your guard all the time, prepared for a confrontation of any kind.
My explanation for this Dutch directness in a very unscientific one. Look at our neighboring countries. Great-Britain, Germany, France and Spain a little further. All former political and military world powers, and aggressors.
When you’re not tall, you gotta be loud.
Monday 11 January 2010, 20:36
i am an asian living in the nederlands for 3 years.. i found dutch to be the most rude people. u go to any govt. offices or trams or in the shops dutchs specially womens are very very rude .
DUTCH ARE VERY VERY RUDE.
Monday 11 January 2010, 22:25
Dutch people open, direct, and honest…?
Personally I would say they are generally less than honest, especially if money is involved. In doing business here for seven years, I have been approached to effectively commit a criminal offence on several occasions, by managers working at established Dutch companies, as if it was ‘the done thing’.
A Dutch person may *seem* to be ‘open’ in their views, but when questioned / faced with someone who calls their bluff, soon back down, and try to escape confrontation. All ‘front’ and no ‘substance’, and certainly very little personal courage.
Tuesday 12 January 2010, 2:03
I think Holland is the worst place I have ever lived in.
It simply has nothing going for it. This I say after having lived there for four months.
The people don´t strike me as being direct, just generally ignorant and very plain and uninteresting. I think they also like to talk in a way that is supposed to make them sound intelligent but when you break it down it´s simply some empty meaningless jargon.
Awful.
I have heard of many examples similar to the above comment: “This man is the ultimate product of this culture. Proud of his over-the-top arrogance and total rudeness.”
Being honest and upfront is one thing and plain nasty is something totally different.
Tuesday 12 January 2010, 19:52
we dutch people just say what we think thats not what would you rather have:
A) i dont like you and i honestly tell you i dont.
or
B) i dont like you and dont tell you so i mislead you thinking otherwhise and tell all my friends that i dont like you, so you can hear it from someone else that i dont like you
i rather have option A.. so i know where i stand….
oh and if someone look awfull in certain clothes we tell then, so they dont look like a fool when they go somewhere
greetings from the dutch
Tuesday 12 January 2010, 22:36
Don’t you people get enough of this discussion. Its as old as Holland is. Get a life everybody
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 0:21
I think Dutch people are amazing people in many ways but about rudeness , yes Dutch people are very much rude.
You might be hearing so often Sory there and here , but this verbal expresion does not change the fact.
They might tell directly anything without thinking other peoples feelings.
Here is my personal experience ;
I was 12 years ago visiting my boyfiends family which I was living already one year together with him in my country, I had to make a quick call to my office for my work, When I asked to my future father in law , Where is UW phone ? He questioned me for what reason that I am asking ? I explained the reason , He said NO you cant.
I had to wait till the next morning,there in 15 min away dorp centrum from a public phone with a phonecard bought, make a phone call.
This was rude and breakes a heart little bit.
If you dont call this rude, you must be also dutch.
Well , that time I did not give so much importance to things like that , cause I know dutch are stingy , they care about 5 cent. But now, since I am living 3 years in Holland with my two children, I am getting used to several forms of dutch rudeness.
Dutch are the villagers from europe. And this rural dutch boer is very sensitive. He works hard. Days are short.And unfortunately dutch are also not social. Mostly sit at home alone or only with family members. They prefer to read boek, instead of making a conversation to you in speeltuin while children are playing. That makes you not being able to understand the others feelings when you talk rude to someone.
thanks
)
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 12:59
Karen,
Oh dear, quite the little judge after only four months, aren’t you?
Try moving in more intelligent circles. You may get a pleasant surprise!
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 13:21
Just plain rude and cold – and very arrogant!
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 19:02
Karin , I wish you had a little more patience to read ( or to listen ) all of what other people are actually saying or writing ( without making your judgement in first place). Where that 4 months of experience comes after all ?
I recommend you read my comment one more time for better understanding.
Good luck.
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 22:32
After having worked professionally with Dutch people in the Netherlands for a transnational company, I find that their Netherlands compared to my – Flemish – Netherlands is much more blunt. If you’re not that blunt, you’re underestimated and more or less set aside – you need to literally speak up. That’s ok, once the bluntness ‘metronome’ is set, you climatise quite quickly (and they don’t expect you to change
). The bluntness helps in getting rid of all the protocol, something I can personally appreciate.
However, this bluntness is only the form of the conversation. There is also the content of the conversation.
Paradoxical to the (egalitarian?) lack of protocol, there is the very obvious ever-present avoidance to take a clear standpoint until it’s safe to think there are likeminded people in the vicinity. Especially when there is a higher-ranking individual present, advice will be given only when it is clear in which way the higher-ranking one is thinking. I have never seen debates with managers on their decisions (something else than other manager’s decisions when they’re not around).
But, I think this is neither unusual nor ‘only Dutch’. It’s just something that is contradictory with the perception of the dutch ‘species’
.
In short: the form of the language is different. But people are surprisingly similar wherever you travel. Compare the countries with English is first language and you’ll see similar debates as well.
Wednesday 13 January 2010, 22:34
Errate: ‘Netherlands’ should be ‘Dutch’ of course… Shame on me…
Friday 15 January 2010, 20:40
Deniz Can, and others,
Just a friendly note: Come live in Norway, it is even worse here. I am dutch living in Norway for 9 years now. I must admit though, it is strange visiting the Netherlands: I also think there is some rudeness, meanwhile I love the directness as I miss it in Norway. I miss the social ways (some of them). In this country, people are, in other ways, rude and anti-social. So there it is, it is a complicated situation, living in a place with different ways.
Friday 15 January 2010, 22:14
In this discussion there’s some confusion between individual rudeness and lack of courtesy of a society. I’ve lived here now 9 years (I don’t know where the qualifying line for having an informed opinion lays) and my experience is that the Dutch are direct. Honest or not, I can’t say. Blunt yes though. I don’t mind this aspect of their culture though.
I find the lack of courtesy that is the general reality here, regardless of the city or town, to be the most off putting aspect of living here. People are just not courteous with one another in public. No one will offer a seat even when pregnant, wait for you to get off the tram/bus/train before boarding, hold the door open for the next person or just the general greasing of the wheel that makes living in a crowded country easier. It feels very aggressive somehow.
Also the Dutch are particularly arrogant about their tolerance… all evidence pointing to discrepancies in their tolerance puts the blame on the other whether it’s the Moraccans, the Polish or the Turks! In the time I’ve lived here I’ve witness the Dutch slipping further away from tolerance. It’s time to re-evaluate!
Tuesday 19 January 2010, 16:49
I think there are countries where people are more distanced and follow more rules of politeness, like here (or in Spain, where I also lived), people is just more direct. There is less distance between what they think and what they say or how they act.
But also less distance to reach people or get integrated. I think Dutch people are awesome, and after living in Spain and Netherlands so many years, I feel really ankward when people has too polite gestures, which I learned usually means distance and lack of trust, like happens in England or in my own country, Argentina.
cheers for the Dutch.
Tuesday 19 January 2010, 18:33
I am Dutch 100% and yes i have to admit that i do encounter often rude people. There is not that much respect for older people and indeed nobody will give up there seat in a bus. I also have to admit that very often the Dutch have wonderful ideas but dont put these into practise if it cost any money: the only passion the Dutch have is money.
On the other hand, one knows often where one stands as the Dutch are direct. An Englishman would say about an idea: hmmm nice meaning: what a crap idea. A Dutchman would say: ” I hate this idea”. Respect is the key in my opinion for a good and humane society.
Thursday 21 January 2010, 4:28
The Dutch are by far the rudest and crudest individuals in Europe. They pride themselves on this. I have seem elderly people stand on a bus numerous times while native Dutch people sit and stare. Pregnant women do not get a seat either. I have seem strangers tell off strangers for no good reason. The list goes on. This rudeness is a much larger systemic breakdown of Dutch morality.
Friday 11 June 2010, 16:24
As Dutchman raised in North America, it pains me to say that ALL people of Holland are rude and abusive. Not just native Dutch but Turks, Morro’s and Indo’s.
They (we) are blunt, rude, offensive, arrogant, cold, stubborn and nasty bunch. Men or women, old or young it does not matter.
You can debate if this phenom occurred due Holland’s geography and nature (cold wet rainy icy lowlands, isolated) John Calvin influence, or fact they were dominated in its history by bigger west european nations (spain, england, france – then germany) and have centuries of frustrations penned up inside them.
Saturday 3 July 2010, 15:03
I think people who call us rude, take themselves to serious. life must be very boring if you can’t laugh about yourself
a man from limburg visited amsterdam and asked a tram driver: are you going to madam toussaud? no i have to work, said the tram driver and drove away
Saturday 10 July 2010, 20:01
I’m dutch. some of you are talking about people not getting up for eachother in the bus, but if you would ride the bus for a whole day here, you’ll see that its meanly foreigners and immigrants who are rude(and use the bus and metro). Amsterdam is always infested with drunk/stoned and what more tourists, and they go beyond rude.(so people from your countrys)
We are not rude, but direct. I think that is because we feel really strong about equallity (did i spell that right?) and freedom of speech. And maybe that influences us a bit in the way we behave.
And my personal experience on the internet, xboxlive, amsterdam and big festivals in the netherlands(even though we’re ”rude”, you have to go at least ones in youre live to a dutch festival: mysteryland, inqontrol, defqon etc.), is that americans, english and the french are much ruder. And some countries in south- europe still have that macho-culture going on and there its meanly only the older people who are polite.
and i want to add that when a foreigner asks me for directions in the netherlands, i always do my very best to help them, i go really far in that. if i dont have anything to do i’ll drive people to the bus- or trainstation, happened a couple of times. its allso because im really intrested in theire stories and countrys. so there is at least one very friendly and polite dutchman in the netherlands, but he is direct and will ask you a lot of things about you and youre country, thats enough for now..
Sunday 18 July 2010, 16:29
I amazed by some people here who complain about our lack of tolerance and don’t understand what our tolerance is. We tolerate certain things but that doesn’t mean we like it. For example, our drugs policy is famous for it’s tolerance, but don’t expect any respect, your allowed to smoke marijuana but people will non the less consider you a stupid junkie. Gay marriage is also tolerated but theirs no shortage of people who think that gays are disgusting.
I don’t think we Dutch are more rude that others (though that may be because I’m dutch myself.) I do find my country men to have an unfortunate habit of being (very) moody especially in traffic and on public transport (don’t get me started on Italian driving behavior though.) Directness is consider a norm and two-faced politeness is a sure way to lose friends here.
Their is also a thing called generalization. Many of the behavior mentioned here appalls me as much as the person suffering it but calling typical Dutch behavior is wrong since I haven’t experienced them my self (people not waiting for the passengers to get of is one example.)
Saturday 24 July 2010, 22:45
im dutch and i do not agree with her at all if you lived here just 1 month how can you tell if people are rude and not nice maby you lived with the wrong people and normally im not rude but number 19 please stfu
Wednesday 4 August 2010, 13:31
The Dutch are rude – FACT! I’ve lived here for two years, I know they don’t mean to be its just the way they are. I never fail to be amazed when they don’t hold doors open for you, say thank you, push you out the way etc…. the list is endless!
Sunday 5 September 2010, 11:27
I visited Amsterdam for a week and had three bad experiences with the Dutch that went way beyond rude. I wish the Germans would have killed all of them.
Wednesday 8 September 2010, 15:09
the netherlanders are not that rude in my experiance ,how ever they can be blunt which aint a bad thing is it ? better than going round the houses not to offend people like us english, say whats on your mind if they dont like it, shame for you
Monday 8 November 2010, 18:18
After a recent trip to Amsterdam, I was shocked by the sheer rudeness of most restaurant staff. Generally the actual dutch people who I came across were friendly and helpful.
The real shock was in the restaurants. The eastern european, arabic and turkish staff in the various restaurants stormed around being rude and shouting at customers, and more importantly, the dutch owners did not care.
One eastern european girl overcharged me by 25 euros because she had given me ‘double portions’ in her words because she assumed I wanted it! I refused to pay and she started swearing at me, whilst the manager told me to ignore her whilst smiling and changed my bill. She swore me out of the restaurant whilst the manager just watched!
This was by no means the only place this sort of thing happened to me and my wife, or others who looked really quite unassuming in various restaurants.
I find it shocking that this is allowed to happen.
Thursday 11 November 2010, 0:05
I’m a Dutchman myself, and I’ve heared a lot of people talking about those “damn rude Dutchmen”. I’d like to point out that we’re everything except rude! But yes, we are more direct and straightforward, but that’s just our way of acting. And i don’t think that people should should judge us about that. It’s not really nice to see “why are dutch people so rude” on google while you’ve just typed ” why a” in the searchbar. But it also depends on the generation we’re talking about, the younger generation is probably more rude than (as example) the younger French generation. But I’ve experienced that the older French generation is often ruder than the older Dutch generation (no offense).
Please keep in mind that when you’re nice to us, we will always be nice back
Saturday 13 November 2010, 5:52
I have a friend.He is a dutch and we sometimes talk on yahoo.Hes nice to me and never showed rudeness to me.He makes me laugh always.I dont really find them rude but i find them cute,tall and nice to talk with.I appreciate his diligence.Thats why we dont talk too often because of his busy work hes a nurse.And i understand that being nurse really had the hard time to find time for themselves,.
Monday 22 November 2010, 19:57
Guys, remember – Amsterdam is not a good representation of the typical Dutch society. There is more in the Netherlands than just the capital city.
Saturday 11 December 2010, 17:59
The answer to that question is not that plain, unequivocal. Nowadays we are living in an increasingly multi-cultural world to the point that it is no longer possible to define what typical Dutch are like. It also fairly often depend on OUR own upbringing, values, views, etc. However, in general yes – I have, unfortunately, experienced unprecedented levels of rudeness and ignorance here, in the Netherlands. I personally do not consider the Dutch particularly ‘direct’. I heard someone say they just lack basic social skills and some emotional intelligence to guide them and tell them when to apply their directness. I have not spent here enough time (slightly over a year) to jump to such conclusions, but let me tell you one thing – the mere fact that people initiated this discussion comes by itself to serve as a telltale sign that something is fishy here…
Saturday 11 December 2010, 18:22
Forget about seeing someone cede their seat to you or your pregnant/baby-holding spouse here. It’s not that the Dutch are consciously rude, but they often believe their way is the only RIGHT way there is and they insist on you conforming to their views. (It’s not a sheer coincidence that The Int’l Court for the so-called Human Rights is located in The Hague!) There are some historical reasons behind that arrogance. I will refrain from going further into detail. Those who know that will know what I mean here.
Comparing to my home country, Israel, the service standards here indeed wish much to be desired. Not everywhere, but in general it is so. Even my Dutch girlfriend feels that way. Employees are often seen engaged in a nonchalant chit-chatting on their private cellphones, while sheepish customers do not even dare challenge them. So much for the famous Dutch ‘directness’.
Their windows may be open, but their doors and often their hearts and souls are sealed tight. The young, who have seen other countries and experienced foreign cultures may differ from the rest, but as I said – they are often an exception. Here they will give you an impression and a very realistic feeling they are doing you a favor by providing service. 0900 numbers is a great point. Why should we, as clients, pay to get served?
It takes 5 minutes to get invited for a cup of coffee and more – who knows – in Israel and many other ‘warm’ cultures. You may spend years living here and yet will not be invited by those you consider your ‘friends’. I think theire rudeness stems from the fact they do not have any slightest idea of how OTHERS feel. They are only concerned with their own feelings. ‘Socializing’ is not a part of their vocabulary in a broad sense of that word.This is an affluent society with high standards of living, but people are extremely BLAND and TASTE-less. There is an impression all other nations are made of flesh and blood, but the stern Dutch are made of plastic, steel or wood instead. Nothing can ever dismay them, except when their rules are broken. I once used a wrong path when biking and got shouted at as if I committed a major crime…I apologized, but the person – an angry-looking old man continued to huff and puff…If you want to really enjoy life – and people, in particular, choose another country. If you are a warm, friendly, outgoing person – you may be in for a serious and painful disappointment here, as there are enough folks in the flatlands willing to take the wind out of your sails, just to prove how damn right they are, because they live by the book and you don’t. The NL is a great country. Too bad Dutch live there.
Wednesday 22 December 2010, 20:38
Randy, that isn’t rude. Who the hell made up the rule that an elder deserves a seat?? It’s ridiculous, if I get a seat, it’s my seat, and no elder can expect to see me standing up for him/her. God, elders get treated like kings.. can’t wait till im 60, walk in a full bus, and everyone stands up for me, I’d feel king. Stupid rule. I am Dutch btw…
Friday 31 December 2010, 19:45
We Duth people are not rude. We really have a opinion about everything. And we do NOT HIDE for it. We just say it! the people that say that we are arrogant or rude or whatever are the people that are just afraid. Because they can not say it, if you really think about it people are just a little jalous about it. We dutch people have a strong mind. Maybe to much for people that are not used to that. Sorry but then to not blame us for being rude.
Every country has his weak points, just like us. But we also have a lot of great point! A english guy told me how funny we where and how great. We have a verry good shool program. We are verry smart. So put the nagative aside and also look to the positive things about us!
We have Queensday! I’m sorry but everyone wants to be in Holland on Queensday! Creazy Duth people in orange, a lot of fun! Sorry but there no other people aside the Dutch people that are just as crazy as us!
Saturday 8 January 2011, 20:15
I think half of the people on this forum don’t know what they are talking about.
For example I take “Karen”: She lived in the Netherlands for only one month. How could you judge the people if you almost didn’t speak to them?
Yes, dutch people are direct. Dutch people don’t say “I don’t like your hair”, because they want to hurt you, but they make a suggestion to change your hair. For Dutch people, this is no problem, because they would do the same. I can imagine that tourists consider this “directness” as inconvenient and rude.
So, keep in mind, that the Dutch don’t mean it rude, but it is a way to express themselves. If you just answer their “rudeness” with anything like “I don’t like your attitude”, they wouldn’t do this to you again.
Wednesday 16 February 2011, 4:28
The Dutch are a bit scared of anything that could potentially challenge their way of life that’s all.
Call it direct or rude the point is that if you mimic this behaviour against them you’re not welcomed anymore. So do your job as fast as possible and go back where you initially came from, that is my advice. (Unless you wanna spend more of your life in a country with two dimensional people and land)
Thursday 24 February 2011, 6:53
My mom married a dutchman, I have to say that since I’ve met this person, I have come to dislike the dutch people….especially him…..his offspring are no different than he is. I have never met anyone so arrogant, rude, self centered and UGLY on the inside and outside… What my mom see’s in him is beyond anything I can grasp. He’s argumentative, constantly interrupts everyone and HAS to be RIGHT about EVERYTHING! And oh yeah, he’s also been there and done that and he will out-do your story, not to mention he KNOWS everything about everything. I’ve had enough of this JERK, IDIOT and CREEP in my life and I wish that he would just GO AWAY or go back to where ever it was that he came from!!! But no, he is here to make our lives miserable….no wonder why his first wife became an alcoholic and gambled…he drove her to it… As Randy has mentioned above, the Dutch people STARE at you…it’s eerie and creeps me out when my mom’s husband does it to me…. (I refer to him as my mom’s husband and not my step-father…I try to remove myself from him as much as I possibly can.) They are all about themselves and have the “What’s in it for me mentality”, not ever considering others! I have not had a good experience with these people and I only wish to God my mom never met this DUTCH DIRTBAG AND DORK!!!! So, for all the DUTCH people reading this….how’s that for DIRECT??!!! That’s another thing….he can’t take what he dishes out…. and sure knows how to play the victim very well when things don’t go his way!!! ERRRRRRRRRR I want him GONE!!!
Monday 14 March 2011, 12:18
My mother is Dutch and my father is Moroccan, I have spent my entire in Holland and I do not, in any way, find Dutch people to be rude. It is really simple to deal with us. If you want something, you ask for it. If you ask a question politely, most people will answer politely in turn. I think that the think is with Dutch people is that we define rudeness in a different way. At least, I do. If you express an opinion that is unfounded and different from mine, I really don’t mind and do not see it as being rude, I do believe it is rude to start bitching about an entire nation while not have seen the entire country and not being open to any other opinion than you own. And people, please. Let’s not forget that while the dutch are hardly perfect, we aren’t fake either. We do not pretend to like you when we don’t. Not do we talk about people behid their back. I, personally, enjoy the directness of it all, I like to know where I stand and I find it so exhausting to try to find another meaning in every single word someone utters.
I am not comfortable with politeness, it is distant and simple strange because I do not knpow what they expct from me. Also, at work I enjoy the directness of it all. when someone’s pissed, they show and not bitch about you to their friends or even their superiors while smiling at you. I do not understand the problem everyone has with that and I think you should all get away from Amsterdam and The Hague and Rotterdam and start going land-inwards for once. Maybe you’ll be able to put your opinions in perspective once you’ve seen more than one city of the nation you’re all bitching about
Wednesday 23 March 2011, 15:56
They are not that direct! If you say something they don’t like, they can easily cross you from their list of friends. What they call directness is just an absence of social skills. Beside, they are utterly boring people in average. If you have a different point of view, I rekon you havn’t lives the the Netherland long enough.
Sunday 27 March 2011, 19:03
Let’s switch rules for a second.
Aren’t the ones who claim that the Dutch are rude not being rude now?
You all are overreacting to high standards and generalizing to a whole new level.
It’s just, as a Dutch myself, that we have other standards and points of view than other countries like the UK. Britain people mostly say please and thank you in a sentence, while we usually use maybe (misschien). But to us, that’s a sort of -thank you- as well, ’cause we say it with a certain tone.
Nonetheless, I do however agree to a certain point. There are a lot of people born here whom have Morrocan/Turkish parents. Most of those are extremely nice, respectful and obviously less rude than the Dutch. I wouldn’t call it rude, but let’s say direct?
We express our opinion very excessively and we don’t hold grudges, but that’s a part of our standards and you all will have to deal.
Friday 1 April 2011, 17:59
i am dutch and jes we are direct but rude is the place where you are like the randstad outer streets.
stil we speek loud and don’t speek to decent but whit many people it is fun and a lot of lauging and it bothers no one in holland.
so from 1-10 rudenes whe are a 4
Tuesday 5 April 2011, 16:39
The Dutch say they are just being direct – but believe me, they are plain rude.
Direct =
A. Does this shirt look good on me?
B. No it does not.
Rude =
A. Hi B!! =)
B. You look like crap today.
Dutch are like B.
Dutch people complain that Americans and Brits say nice things to peoples’ face and talk badly behind their backs… which I agree is bad… but what’s even worse is that Dutch people do the opposite!
Dutch guy: You are not my type. I would not date you.
Dutch guy: (to other Dutch guy behind my back as I am walking away, in Dutch so he wouldn’t understand):
Maar zij is mooi (but she is beautiful though).
Dutch people seem very insecure in themselves.
They will never resist an oppurtunity to put someone down, and can hardly steal themselves to compliment someone.
They say Brits and Americans go overboard in complimenting people and are false and insincere… but here they fake insult.
For example, I go to a Dutch university.
I did an excellent lecture on a particular subject – the teacher commended me, and a lot of people said they liked it.. I put in a lot of work.
Then this guy comes up to me at the end:
“I’m not trying to be rude, but you really modified your accent there.”
Me: So what? I was trying to be clear.
Him: It’s so stupid. And your shirt has a button missing from the bottom. Hey, I’m just letting you know. You might want to comb your hair a bit more next time too.
This is just one typical example, where I was like whaaaaaaaaaaaat?
And the men do it.. so it’s not just jealous females.
Saturday 9 April 2011, 20:20
Been originally from Italy having lived in the US and grew up in the American community of an Army US base in Italy made me certainly experience a cultural shock when 13 years ago I moved for work in the Netherlands
Indeed this is place where people might seem to be very international but often incredibly provincial and rude in their manners without realizing how different the rest of the world could be .
What a paradox
Still it gave me much to think about
I believe we need to make a distinction between been rude and insensitive.
You might be sensitive but not able to express your emotions and feelings like in other country but you can also be very polite on the surface but very superficial and ready to rip someone off in the inside
Depending from how I felt in the past years I managed sometimes to see the rudeness and lack of manners of some Dutch people or some of their qualities missed in other cultures.
Still I must say with much proud in the last years I manage to extract manners from many people I have met in Amsterdam and in Holland
I have learn not to give up the manners and courtesy that my family passed on me but I also have learnt to be more clear and concise
I noticed that if in the past certain manners and kind expressions where even turning against me for been misunderstood with instead more clarity in talking combined with humility desired if possible to love and respect my fellow made me manage to get incredible results I never expected in the past.
So my advice would be do not give up manners and kind expression existing in you culture, try to be always very sensitive towards the needs and expectations of other but also make sure you to represent always clearly the reality without embellish it from the outside with nice worlds and deeds when in reality there is still so much dirt and imperfection behind it.
Than I think you could be amazed by how polite even Dutch can become sometimes
Saturday 9 April 2011, 20:33
I understand in such a country been praised for its tolerance and freedom people sometimes confuse freedom with lack of responsibility
Still I believe it is a new phenomenal of the last 40 years .
Before that Holland was a country with a strong protestant ethic in encouraging people to have a strong personal responsibility towards your family, business and the entire society.
An ethic mixing Christian social values of solidarity and capitalism with a human face missed in other countries.
I think what we see now has to do much with certain cultural revolution started from the 60s that here in Holland seemed to have put stronger roots and reveling its self in the new generations
Claiming than that as long as your honest and not hypocrite should allow you to say everything does not make any sense at all and only comes from who is used to never been criticized.
Personally if I would always say what I really think or cross my mind I would have not been able to keep a job and interact with women, colleagues or any other member of the society without ending up with violent conflicts.
Sensitivity, diplomacy and clarity should always go hand in hand
I am sure many Dutch intelligent people can certainly understand and agree with me
Monday 9 May 2011, 0:12
I live in the Netherlands too and I’m very surprised because of this comments, I think there is a big Difference in which part of Holland you are, I live in the north part of Holland, Here are People always happy and nice to you, also are people here much more relaxed and not acting so smart, Amsterdam itself has its own culture I think, But Amsterdam is also the center of Holland where all the foreigners come to when they visit Holland, Because of that i think that they behave different to foreigners, When I’m in Amsterdam i also feel allot more coldness and introspective behavior same as other capitals…
If didn’t live in Holland and i would visit Holland i think i would visit Friesland/Noord Holland with a boat, and go to the real areas of Holland so you can meet real uninfluenced dutch people. The thing with the bus here what everybody is saying is a part of our culture i think, everybody treads each other equality maybe it is sometimes a bit to equal, but if you always tread woman, old, young people equal then you get used to it. If it is a strange thing, I don’t know. i think it is strange to treat woman different only because they have some other chromosomes, or threat old people different because of there age (Yes I’m not talking about really old sick people
)
I think the “everybody think for yourself, And its all about the truth, objectivity vs emotionality” attitude has much to do with the roots, history and the education system, our founders had to be very rational, else i would live on the bottom of the sea like sponge bob, I read here allot bad comments about this social property, But i think this is a inevitably switch of thinking, And that all developing country’s will end in more rational thinking population. (Yes this sounds very populist
). But i can tell you, if you grow with it you will respect it 
(As everything 
), Its like the dutch culture has adapted some scientific structures and science will never undermine emotion 
Saturday 21 May 2011, 2:36
I am sorry for being a rude dutch child. I honestly apologise for that. I say what I think an I think what I say. But I am asking myself if that realy is a bad thing. I know we could be more polite by being more cautious about we are going to say first, but for some people that means lying… And I guess no one wants to be deceived.
But that is just me. Not all humans are the same you know, so I am wondering where some people get the nerve to talk about a whole culture, country, etc. about things that could be diffrent for every individual. I am sorry for sharing my opinion with you because I know most of you people find it rude. So I apologize again for being rude, but at least I am honest. One more thing:
De pot verwijt de ketel dat hij zwart ziet.
Go think about that for a while please. (Look, NOW I was rude.)
Thursday 26 May 2011, 12:07
I really do think that most of the “rudeness” that is attributed to the Dutch people in this topic has to do more with upbringing and personality than with culture. I am 100% Dutch (my family has been living in Amsterdam for generations) and my mother has always taught me to stand up for old people, pregnant women etc. I have to admit, however, that less and less people are getting this type of “upbringing” and many an elderly person is forced to stand in trams and bussess (something which I truely regret). But it is this ‘insensitivity’, or rahter indifference, towards others that we increasingly encounter in people from all kinds of backgrounds, cultures and nationalities; it really is not just the Netherlands unfortunately.
What I find especially striking here is that everyone attributes a type of “nationalism” to the Dutch, whereas the only time a real feeling of “nationalism” seems to come about is either during the World Cup Finals or Queen’s day…. Or maybe that’s just because I have been living in a city for all my life.
As for being rude: some people are indeed quite rude, but then again, do we not encounter those in every country (maybe except for Japan)? The problem with generalization is that there are always exceptions to the rule and I sincerely hope that those people who have so far had a bad experiance with Dutch people will encounter many of those exceptions in future.
Sunday 26 June 2011, 19:30
As a Dutch girl of 19 with a lot of foreign friends who think I’m kind and caring, I woulf like to say that Amsterdam is a rude place to me too. I feel like a tiny ant when visiting it. To everyone who experienced rudeness in Amsterdam, I suggest visiting Utrecht, which is more like a big village and who have not grown insensitive to all the coffeeshop tourists and who I find much more intetesyed than Amsterdam citizens and people working in shops are kinder too in my opinion because Utrecht is not so packed and busy.
Friday 1 July 2011, 1:53
We arent that rude. Somewhat direct and saying what we think and maybe on the outside if you dont really know them, they can be. Definitly. But its not like were heartless, we care about each other and are always willingly to help each other out. We say what we think and i think its better that than the ‘imitated friendliness’ were they act all nice and behind your back just talk bad about you and actually dont like you at all. If we dont like you we just say: I dont like you. Straight and honest. To be honest I am proud to be that way (Yes we are also very proud on our country) and if you dont understand that then understand that do have a good community this way. And we do get up for eldery and pregnant woman, but we also expect to be that direct to just ask that cuz we can be quite introverte.
Monday 4 July 2011, 0:54
I have seen two different kinds of Dutch people:
- A group of Dutch people who were really warm and considerate, respectful and interested. They were simply radiating warmth towards me which made me feel at home. (but unfortunately this group is very rare…. I met this group at the university).
- The other kinds of Dutch that I met lack a big portion of empathy towards the feelings of other individuals. They are not poetic enough to see beyond materialistic things that we humans encounter day and night. They have brains… but no hearts. They don’t feel you, they don’t search for you inside of your eyes. They only ‘see’ the materials that is visible for every child, every adult… whatever is beyond that (and there is a lot beyond all that) they don’t see.
I found many many Dutch people as superficial human beings. They don’t want or like or can’t dive deeper into life issues. Anything you will find that surfaces.
- If you are a person who feels everything then you will hear from them that you are very emotional person. It is like being very exotic. They are so rational at everything that as soon as they meet someone who feels a lot, he/she is exotic and rare.
- A lot of times it feels cold here. I can’t get connected to them but I really want to. I want to get to know them… I want to learn from them but they won’t let me.
A lot of time it feels lonely here.
I also encountered Dutch people with a very bad manners and impolite in the way of expressing themselves. I think this is because of a tremendous lack of social intelligence, lack empathy for others, and no willingness to consider at least a bit of the other parties way of thinking and background.
I don’t think they are tolerant. I think they are closed into themselves and also they have closed up themselves from all cultures that are not Western.
- Those things that I found very nice… I gladly learned from the Dutch. But I promised myself to never mirror their incredibly bad and cheap way of treating people. I have never met this much of superficial manners. What happened that they have become like this?? I really want to know the reason of their superficiality.
Saturday 23 July 2011, 12:47
I have posted my opinion about the Dutch people a couple of weeks ago. I just came back to re-read all that and I see that my post has been deleted. Shame on you NRC?? how dare you do delete my post on this entry? is that your idea of ‘Freedom of Speech’ as it is manifested in art. 7 Grondwet.
By the way art. 7 lid 2 Grondwet forbids any kind of censurship. Dus, geachte NRC, daarmee heeft u schaamteloos de wet overtreden.
You will soon pay for this!