What will Wilders’ European victory mean?
17 percent of Dutch voters who made it to the polls on Thursday chose the Party for Freedom, the brain child of anti-Islam populist Geert Wilders, to represent them in the European parliament. Wilders, who himself is not moving to Brussels, but was at the forefront of the campaign, has made his stand on the European parliament pretty clear: he wants to abolish it. He also wants to indefinitely ban Turkey from entering into the EU, kick Bulgaria and Romania out and be tough on immigration. His “For the Netherlands” campaign was the most eurosceptic of all the Dutch parties competing.
But even Wilders had not expected his party to become bigger than Labour. “This is the day the PVV finally made its breakthrough,” he said.
Yet at the other extreme of the political spectrum, D66, the most ‘euro-loving’ of the Dutch parties – also went from one to three seats. Ruling parties Labour and the Christian democrats, however, were severely penalised by the voters.
“The Netherlands is a more polarised country since Thursday’s election,” NRC political correspondent Herman Staal writes. When it comes to the European perspective, he asks: “Does the PVV victory, on top of the Dutch ‘no’ in the 2005 referendum about the European constitution, mean that the Netherlands is now firmly in the eurosceptic camp?”
What do you think the (further) polarisation of the Dutch political landscapes means for the country both at home and in Europe?
Friday 5 June 2009, 17:47
I am American in America. My Dutch email friend said Geert Wilders is worse than George W. Bush.
If he is so reactionary against Muslims, Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria —- and the EU itself, he frightens me.
Friday 5 June 2009, 18:17
AM VERY HAPPY TO SEE MANY DUTCHMEN FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE DANGER OF GIVING UP THEIR NATIONAL IDENTITY AND THE DANGER ASSOCIATED WITH REACHING OUT TO ISLAM. GEERT WILDERS & CO. .. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
Friday 5 June 2009, 19:13
Wilders is not anti-islam. He is pro Netherlands. If muslims refuse to assimilate in Dutch society, adopt Dutch culture, religions and values, then he is against those muslims who are rightfully seen as dismantling what it means to be Dutch. If muslims want to live in a place that rejects democracy, Christianity, the rule of law, the sanctity of human rights, including women’s rights, then these muslims should simply move back to the mid east or south east asia. By no stretch of the imagination should the Dutch be forced to abandon their way of life to appease the muslims.
Friday 5 June 2009, 19:42
This has to be an ‘Eye Opener’ for all those who would like to see our country making progress as a ‘ multicultural nation’which is a day like truth.Its victory of my country fellow Mr.Geert Wilders but failure of those who knew in advance about this Land Slide Victory,but remained silent!!
Netherlands needs A leadership which unties us under the motto of Solidarity and that would be the reply against the politics of polarization.
Unfortunately almost majority of establish political parties and the leadership is not willing to give a serious thought. Knowing even about different opinion polls predictions about the possible victory of PVV, non of them could adopt campaign/policies to counter the politics of polarization.
I have a bigger worry that not only our country but within the boundaries of EU extreme right wing groups and parties are going to obtain the same results. Europe as a continent once again can see ‘ Nationalism’ which might harm her relations with rest of the world and especially with the Islamic World!!
Its the time now for those who rejects politics of polarisation to join hands and let the people understand that if we want to see peace in our societies and country the door is through Solidarity!!
So its not to condemn or criticise PVV but to confess that ‘We had responsibility to Unite against the Machiavellian Politics”.
Saturday 6 June 2009, 9:56
It seems possible that this is not really about voters swinging behind the far right but lashing out at the established mainstream parties, to the benefit of smaller parties of both the extremely eurosceptic right and the enthusiastically pro-European left.
Nevertheless, the level of support for the PVV is alarming. It points to the worrying levels of fear and anxiety in Dutch society at the moment. Similar trends are apparent in my home country, the UK, where the far-right, racist British National Party has done well in the local elections – we wait to see how they have done in the European elections.
I am in my mid-30s and I have already spent part of my career in Estonia (actually before they joined the EU) and now in NL. I have worked alongside colleagues from all over Europe and beyond. Being an EU citizen makes it easier for me to work, live, study, holiday, own property or set up a business anywhere from Lisbon to Lodz or Riga to Rome. It is a great shame that so many people look at Europe with fear and trepidation. I look at Europe and see immense opportunities.
Ironically, many of the people lashing out at immigrants, foreigners and the EU claim that they are standing up for the strength and virility of their own nation. Nations that are really strong and confident do not jump at ghosts and bogeymen! They go out boldly and with open arms to welcome the challenges and opportunities they face.
Sunday 7 June 2009, 15:23
I am not Dutch, but living for almost 15 years in this country makes me think that current PVV success should not be overestimated in the domestic affairs.
It seems, Dutch people wanted to make their point about the crisis in economy, about the general EU “globalization” rather than willing to make a political change in favor of a nationalistic radicalism.
Sunday 7 June 2009, 20:09
Firstly: “Wilders has made his stand on the European parliament pretty clear: he wants to abolish it. He also wants to indefinitely ban Turkey from entering into the EU, kick Bulgaria and Romania out and be tough on immigration.”
That is not clear. If you abolish the European parliament, what remains of the Union and how is it governed? If you abolish the whole Union, then what do you kick Bulgaria and Romania out of? I am also very surprised to read about an ‘indefinite’ ban of Turkey. You’d expect Wilders to want a very definite ban indeed. Also unclear is what alternatives Wilders proposes to the EU, in regard to defense and economy. Suggesting to abolish the EU or its parliament raises more questions than it answers and is therefore not at all clear.
Secondly: “ Wilders had not expected his party to become bigger than Labour ” Labour? Labour is a British party.
This raises another point. It is weird and inappropriate that we have to vote between national parties in a European election. We should have European parties and be able to chose our favourites from across Europe. 0blige all European parties to write their manifestos in all languages of the EU. National parties should only merge with foreign parties, if they can agree on shared goals and policies. If very idiosyncratic, like the Dutch Party for the Animals (PvdD=pro animal rights) foreign mergers may not be an option, but supporters (and voters) for this party may still be found Europewide. If that means we’ll have the choice between a few hundred parties in European elections, then so be it.
Wilders sends others to Brussels on behalf of his party, the PVV, and he is not interested in foreign cooperation, let alone international party mergers, but since Wilders has supporters across Europe, he, for one, would greatly benefit from opening up the European elections to becoming a Europewide affair, with international parties and candidates, who can be elected from anywhere in the Union.
As it is, the European seats that go to Wilders are relatively few. The PVV will just be a small loony party in Brussels, drawing attention to itself through bad manners, and possibly causing some unnecessary delays, but hardly an effective political force. Had Wilders gone into an alliance with powerful people like Berlusconi, this might have been different.
I don’t interpret the vote for Wilders as major Euro-skepticism among the Dutch electorate. The vote is as loony as PVV policies, and expresses objection against Islam within our national borders, not something that can be tackled by stepping out of the EU. Serious Euro-skeptic parties (SP) lost in the elections, while serious defenders of the EU, like the D’66 and GroenLinks, won.
The worst that can happen is that the PvdA (Socialist), the CDA (Conservative-Christian) and VVD (Conservative-Liberal) draw conclusions from their defeat by adopting some of Wilders’ ideas. Politics can cope with a bit of polarization, but if political parties become fashion victims and slavishly follow suit, the system fails.
Monday 8 June 2009, 14:05
Geert Wilders has no self-absorbance apparantly because the high-maintance party PVV is shallow and pedantic.
and here is why:
-no idea of the consequences of their actions
-they have no solutions for the problems they name
J.D.P
Monday 8 June 2009, 14:42
Kelly van Rijn (#3) writes: “If Muslims refuse to assimilate in Dutch society, adopt Dutch culture, religions and values, then he is against those Muslims who are rightfully seen as dismantling what it means to be Dutch.”
Not Islam or Judaism are enemies of Dutch culture, but Catholicism is and has been for about 400 years. If Wilders and his supporters want to return to the religious intolerance of Spanish rule in the Netherlands, they are trying to dismantle what it means to be Dutch.
Monday 8 June 2009, 16:36
I do not think the Dutch or any country in the EU is really extreme right wing. But the people on the street are being overwhelmed with a lot of info, true or not.
There is an extreme (by all means) economic crisis and yes, to not be “politically correct” there is a big immigration “strain” on many countries, well “strain” in the sense that “they” are very different.
It is obvious that some groups of immigrants have very different principles than those of the West(based on religion or customs, whatever).
Monday 8 June 2009, 17:57
A small amount of immigration is nice and adds a cosmopolitan flavour to a country. The Netherlands is already far too full of immigrants. The immigrants have very high birth rates, so even if no more immigration is allowed, they will eventually outnumber the ethnic Dutch people. If the Dutch are a minority in the Netherlands, where will they go? You can be sure the Dutch will not be welcome in Morocco or Somalia. Those countries would not be foolish enough to allow themselves to be overrun by foreigners. The native American Indians are a good example of what happens to you when you allow too much immigration. They sat back and watched while their country was stolen from them by the white settlers. When they woke up it was too late.
Tuesday 9 June 2009, 2:21
These election results are indicative of the great problem of ‘multiculturalism’. A people, such as the Dutch, cannot be forced to accept alien cultures without their consent. This glaring oversight by the left will be its undoing. The Dutch do not seek to leave their borders. The Dutch will welcome other foreign peoples, so long as they – the foreigners – accept the idea of assimilation to the established Dutch culture. The Dutch belong to Holland – that is our homeland -, and when you are in your home you may invite others to share your home, but those invited in have lost their leverage to impress or subjugate their hosts to ways that they – the hosts – reject or find alien.
Tuesday 9 June 2009, 8:37
The reality about the election success for the PVV is that it reflects views that have long been held by a substantial percentage of the population.
For many years the Dutch governing classes were in a state of denial, preferring to promote the image across Europe of a Dutch Society at peace with itself and all its constituent parts. This cosy approach was rudely curtailed with the arrival of Pim Fortuyn. Wilders is no more than a Pim Fortuyn mark 2.
Until the main parties recognise that there is a deep underlying nationalistic sentiment in Dutch society, which has now been given a voice, then they will not be able to begin to respond to the problem. Its the same as the football authorities in Spain being in denial about the underlying racism problem with some football supporters. Until it is recongnised it cannot be tackled.
Tuesday 9 June 2009, 16:02
Something I have missed here is the popular vote on the ultra right wing holds about 15%, the power still rests with the old boys network; they hold 80% in parliament. Wilders cs can scream all they want, but Europe stands strong.
Another thing I have missed here (and elsewhere) is the cause of the diminishing numbers voting for socialist parties. An economic boom without precedence made everybody affluent, owning multiple cars, 1 point 3 houses, several TV screens, gadgets, computers, clothes worth capitals, all that with incomes allowing them to fly around the globe for leisure and fun. Egoists as we are the socialist movement turned itself obsolete, a downfall helped by this global crises where greed seemed to be one of the main causes.
All the more shame on us, especially white trash with a high education, to blame immigrants for all this, immigrants we need to keep the machine running and our old behinds clean.
Wednesday 10 June 2009, 0:50
Tom Vitale(31) writes: I am American in America. My Dutch email friend said Geert Wilders is worse than George W. Bush.
Well, Tom. You are misinformed. At least Mr. Wilders is trying to do something about the massive immigration and cultural dilution problem currently destroying the Netherlands. As much as President Bush kept Americans safe after the US was attacked on 9-11, he failed to address the immigration problem, fearful of losing Hispanic votes.
Wednesday 10 June 2009, 11:20
For those worried about Wilders’ rhetoric. Don’t be. Surprisingly few people that voted for him think that he can actually be prime-minister (let alone dissolve the EU). Even though he gained 4 seats it has less to say about him than it does about our government (in times of crisis).
Wednesday 10 June 2009, 17:59
As an American living in Amsterdam for 20 years. I
will share with you my unbiased commentary.
When I first arrived I was shocked that the Morrokaans had such a bad reputation, but in my 20 years here, I’ve come to see that they bring it on themselves. They can not accept the liberty here. Its simply too much freedom for them.
And the ones that do integrate have to suffer for the minority that do not.
Wilders blanket attack on all things foreign does a great disservice to Holland,because the working class and lowly educated are easily riled up, and you cant expect them to tell the difference from a intergrated
immigrant and a problem maker.
If you remove the ‘Muslim’ element,there would be very little opposition to Multi-culturism or immigration.There are dozens of nationalities at work & play in Holland. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Wednesday 10 June 2009, 20:53
Geert Wilders’ winning of a large number of votes last week tells us several important things about The Netherlands. Voter apathy: the low voter turnout almost guaranteed a win for Wilders and a loss for the ruling parties. Disatisfaction with the Dutch social scene: thinking Dutch citizens will view Fortuyn, Van Gogh, and (in a way) Alli as martyrs in the cause of free speech. If women in western dress are ridiculed by Muslim youths on the streets of Gouda, who even include the queen in their insulting remarks, what right-thinking Dutch citizen will not strongly object. Disenchantment with multiculturalism: giving equal weight to all religous ideologies, even the one that preaches destruction of the infidel, leads to a self-destructive moral relativism. The slow decay of a wonderful country is happening before our eyes–daily.
Thursday 11 June 2009, 18:01
I don’t think Dutch Culture is at risk due to the increasing numbers of the Muslim Population. We can take example of the United Kingdom where Muslims from the sub-continent (India,Pakistan,Bangladesh) migrated in the early 60′s and we can see no invasion of Islam in that society,even the number of Muslim parliamentarians in the British Parliament is not more then five.
The most important for us here in the Netherlands is to respect each other’s religion and culture. Let’s not criticise each other because of colour,race or believe.
Come whatever in our way ” we should behave properly with decency and harmony by condemning all sorts of violence,hatred and narrow vision,let’s love diversity of cultures in our country,by adopting sophisticated behaviour we can win.And we can save our future generations from Civil War or Anarchy like situations.
I do hope that after some time Mr.Geert Wilders would consider to leave the populistic politics to save our society from further polarization and divide.
Thursday 11 June 2009, 23:56
What amazes me as an American who has lived in Europe for seven years (assuming one considers England to be European) is the manner in which the elites are complicit in the destruction of Euroopean Civilization. The academics (I was one in a previous life) the media, the church, the “liberal politicians” all attack the wrong target. Wilders is the quintessential prophet without honor in his own country. He seems to be virtually alone in recognizing that the future of Europe is Islam — it is a mathematical certainty — unless selfish, lazy, irrelegious Europeans were to start having children again, a very unlikely scenario. With your liberal values, what do you think life will be like in the Caliphate? Wilders will seem like a libertine anarchist in comparison. Just one more point: if you wish to call him a bigot, go ahead. But a racism supposes a race, and Muslims come in all sizes and colors. Their one common trait is fanaticism.
Friday 12 June 2009, 0:06
As an American who has been to Europe several times, I have always loved being in Holland, France, England, Italy, etc. precisely for their specific cultural achievements. What I find AWFUL in today’s “politically correct” world is the insistence that all cultures are equally deserving of respect. Let me explain: if you live in say Somalia or other African country or Saudi Arabia and wish to practice genital mutilation on your women, this is abhorrent, but there’s not much Americans (or any other outsider) can do besides trying to tell you to respect your women, not mutilate them. But if such a Somali or ANYONE else (not singling out Africans here) wishes to move to Holland (or anywhere else) I believe you must respect the culture of the HOST COUNTRY, the place you want to move to and live in and thus obey their laws against genital mutiliation. I do not believe “foreigners” should move into another culture and try to change that culture in such a bad way. If you love your home culture/traditions so much, stay home. It’s like being a guest in someone’s home: I can’t go into your home and spit on the floor or insist that you do things my way — to do so is rude and outrageous!. I understand why the Dutch people feel invaded and threatened by foreigners who have no respect for the Dutch and their enlightened views. I go to the Netherlands to enjoy THAT culture, not to impose my ways on them.
And there are some things we know are just wrong: slavery and oppression of women, “honor” killings, denying girls schooling, etc. If people in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or elsewhere want to live that way, I feel sorry for them and would help them see a new way, but (unfortunately) could not force them to change, and I would NEVER accept such “cultural traditions” as being acceptable in my home country!
Finally, since before the days of Spinoza, Holland has been known for its atmosphere of tolerance. I fear excessive immigration and its attendant demand for the Dutch to give up their own culture are going to destroy this wonderful tradition of open mindedness the Dutch have maintained.
Friday 12 June 2009, 10:53
If the essence of Dutch culture is tolerance and openness (which aparently a lot of people think), how can you protect that by becoming closed and intolerant?
If the tolerance goes, as is happening now, can anybody tell me what is then left of Dutch culture that is really worth protecting?
Tolerance is not soft. Tolerance is very hard, in both senses of the word. It is accepting that differences exist and ensuring that others accept differences too.
You can save tolerance by ‘educating’ intolerant people and by ensuring they do not get their way, but you cannot save tolerance by forcing intolerant people out of your country. At that moment you have become intolerant yourself and the very thing you want to preserve is lost.
Friday 12 June 2009, 12:50
The history repeat itself, Hitler want to keep the perfect race and make Germany as the perfect country. Wilders want to do the same, keep only the dutch tribe. Sometimes, I wonder if we are going back to tribe culture.
What really surprise me is that Mr W. want freedom of speech but at same time he want to ban people to practice Islam (hmm, funny).
As you know the Dutch economy is based on huge corporates which operate all around the world. If Mr W want to Ban Turkey, Morocco, Bulgarie, Poland, Roumania etc than he needs to ask the dutch companies like Shell, ABN, ING, ETC to stop trading with those country.
I hope that the Dutch are wise enough to understand how much business can be lost because of this position.
In the end apartheid is Dutch word, and was used in South Africa and Indonesia by the x dutch politician.
Friday 12 June 2009, 18:03
Holland needs to allocate at least 1% of its budget to fight rampant racism within its aborigine population. Investing in the education of Dutch people of European descent on other cultures and on the importance of accepting cultural variety will go a long way in eliminating the ghettoization of Dutch society. The country need more Moroccans and Turks in government, military, banks, enterprises,… The Queen should play its societal cohesiveness role and be an example in this area instead of hiding in her palace encouraging racists; she should learn from her wiser sister in the UK. A dutch Obama is at least 500years away the way things are going in Holland.
Saturday 13 June 2009, 20:33
To the guy who said Catholics are still enemies of the North, good, so now I know where we stand, so people from Brabant and Limburg, Achterhoek, lets leave that sorry bunch behind.
And this thus happens when the poor non-nobility gets votes, just were the people (Nobility) was afraid for.
Lets return to Feodal times.
Monday 15 June 2009, 19:35
I want to add on my earlier post for after today GW has shown his true face: the man suffers from what shrinks call schizoid paranoia, that in combination with a rather big theatrical personality disorder makes him the right man for the wrong job. futhermore he is so absorbed with his ’cause’ that he is beyond solipsism now.
we are all witnesses of dictatorship in the making here, for now he played his trumpcard: tens of millions muslims have to go, meaning all but a handpicked handfull.
raving lunacy, indeed. compared with the US he wants to expel all mexicans and every other south american, alien or not, compared with AH, well, we know what he really wants, don’t we…big question here is: will Israel help him to achieve his goal…
Monday 15 June 2009, 23:48
I feel ashamed to explain to my international friends what is happening in the Netherlands. The prejudice against others (read muslim, immigrants) and the ignorance about our own Dutch history, is simply astounding.
People do not understand that there is no static Dutch identity. Only 2 generations ago, a catholic could not marry a protestant in the Netherlands, a woman was required to stop working the day she got married, and gays have been accepted into society only in the last 20 years. So much for a long standing Dutch society with clear Christian values which we believe to be true……
People do not understand that in any religion (Islam, Christianity, Judism,….) most of the followers just want to mind their own business, have a normal life, and live in peace. Some may want to worship every day, others only a few times in their life. There are groups within each religion with extreme viewpoints; who want to tell others how to live their lifes. They are the only ones that should be watched out for……and Geert Wilders is one of them.
Tuesday 16 June 2009, 10:47
A worrying development but not one that should be surprising. There has been a strong racist element in Dutch society since the 30s. For example, the largest proportion of volunteers for the SS in all the countries occupied by nazi Germany came from the Netherlands.
The dog-whistle politics touted by ‘de Telegraaf’ newspaper are also responsible for giving this ridiculously-coiffed, ignorant little self-obsessed thug a platform.
The biggest concern is seeing how the Dutch regard certain types of criminal activity as being down to the race of the criminals, rather than the social and economic circumstances. Yes, young Dutch citizens of Moroccan descent are more likely to commit crime, but as soon as they reach their 30s, they are less likely to commit crime than their ‘autochtoon’counterparts.
Saturday 20 June 2009, 13:31
There are too many people on this thread going on about ‘Dutch culture’ as if it were a homogeneous and standardised unit. Anyone who has spent any time here will know that Dutch people like nothing more than to be rude about one another: Northerners disparage Southerners, Protestants are rude about Catholics, everyone is rude about the Limburgers and Friesians, rural dwellers fret about the corruption of the cities, people in the Randstad ridicule the rural bumpkins outside it, the atheists make fun of the religious, etc. etc… Dutch nation? Which one?!
Of course the same can be said about so-called ‘nations’ everywhere. People forget that the ‘nation-state’ is a comparatively recent invention. Half of Europe and large slices of West Asia and North Africa used to be part of the Roman Empire. Originally, we were all Africans, or so they say.
The world is changing, just as it always has, and long may it continue. I’m happy to be European, I’m glad to welcome foreigners here and I hope to be welcomed when I go to their lands. So, petty nationalists – have fun in your paranoid bunkers!
Saturday 20 June 2009, 16:36
Wilders supports a culture of tolerance. Dutch society is, and has always been a tolerant country as espoused by William the Silent.. Wilders merely wants those who are intolerant to either leave the country, not be allowed into the country, or to become tolerant. I don’t understand the problem? When you join a club you abide by club rules. You don’t impose your own rules.
Wednesday 24 June 2009, 17:34
# 19 : I don’t think Dutch Culture is at risk due to the increasing numbers of the Muslim Population. We can take example of the United Kingdom where Muslims from the sub-continent (India,Pakistan,Bangladesh) migrated in the early 60’s and we can see no invasion of Islam in that society,even the number of Muslim parliamentarians in the British Parliament is not more then five. (We ll see in the next decade, If dutch and British not aware the danger silent of this invasion they will be enslave in their own soil. Read the history of countries across asia and africa).
Friday 24 July 2009, 7:08
Geert W. is very intolerant and anti islam and anti modern Dutch culture and democraty. He is pro millitant zionism and not pro Netherlands. Geert W. supports a growing culture of intolerance and mediocracy. His actions are contraproductive and create more problems as soling them. Sure, beiing an anti-party he has no interest at all to solve one problem. His political life depends on discontent so he will want to create more discontent in sttead of solving a problem. How low can a person become. I hope the juge will put him in jail for many many years.
Saturday 25 July 2009, 13:23
comment for Patrick Faas,
#9 Your comment, “Not Islam or Judaism are enemies of Dutch culture, but Catholicism is and has been for about 400 years.”
I am Catholic and attend services every week even do volunteer work for the church and having been a part of various parishes, I can only say that The Catholic Church does allot for the community. There is always a special service for the Dutch soldiers lost in wars. We even sang the Wilhelmus on liberation day. Please let me know which Mosque would do that??? I have yet to see bands of Catholic youths talking in Latin insisting on smoking hash in trains or trams pounding on windows, and spitting sun flower seeds on the floor or terrorizing and belittling others. Let’s face the facts. Christianity shares much of the same background as Islam, but Islam needs a lot more PR work.
Monday 27 July 2009, 8:51
i think the fear is false, coz the morocans in netherlands is only one percent and turks too one percent or less, so that means that maybe one or two procent of population is muslim and 99 or 98 is others so my conclusion is mr wilder is just like george bush.
the real problem lies in the western occupation of afganistan and iraq, the new created war on terrorism, like this is the new cold war thing, wich damaged the muslim imago, started in america
but if you see history, it is like reversed, christian is much more a treat, look at america, north and south allmost al natives are murdered,
australia same thing, aboriginals have no rights so and are murdered by numbers. and the jews too holocaust.
Monday 27 July 2009, 18:31
If anyone wants to know about unlimited immigration into Europe, they only have to look at Britain, where racial troubles are brushed under the carpet, even when 50 or so of our citizens were murdered some years ago. Laws forbid strong protests against immigration, and immigrants are regularly winning large sums of money by claiming they have been discriminated against in various professions. At present immigrants represent only some 10percent of inhabitants in London, but commit some 90 percent of the crime, and yet all the time, Londoners are told that these people are “enriching” their culture…
Friday 31 July 2009, 9:50
jonathan, I don’t think you actually made any point with your statement, a part from appearing extremely racist.
About Wilders: I can’t help it, I have to laugh when I read about his new initiatives. He is embarassing the Netherlands. Thank God there are plenty of Dutch people feeling quite distant from his point of view.
Friday 31 July 2009, 11:47
In reference to comment nr 20 .. sorry mate, think a little further. Your logic stating that Moslims come in all shapes and sizes and their common denominator is ‘fanatacism’ .. is wrong.
Obviously you do not know any, or ever mix with Moslim neighbours, colleagues or friends. If you did, then you would know how tolerant most Moslims here in the Netherlands are. Implying that they are all intolerant and fanatical is insulting.
Yes, there is a problem with some YOUNG MALE Moroccan youth (- as there is with men in general, who commit most of the crimes in every country regardless of colour or creed ).
Not with young Maroccan women, who are doing extremely well academically etc etc. They are the future !
There is so much here in the Netherlands that is wonderful … e.g. the liberal & progressive thinking which has brought us the best gay rights so far in the world, parental leave, rental rights, good health care etc etc.
Political populists like Geert W. are rapidly destroying social-political growth, with simplistic, polarizing hatemongering, appealing directly to ill informed citizens who find it easier to bash foreigners than examine the complex reasons as to why Western society is becoming more volatile, economics more muddied.
This is no time for cheap politics .. that is what started WW2.
As part of the Dutch school curriculum, the Dutch should include the true history, and current business practices, of how they have gotten to be such a rich, well faring economy. Fair trade has never been governmental policy much less private company code of practice.
There are no excuses for bad behaviour, nor should fundamentalism of any kind be condoned when it conflicts with justice and liberty. Such stuff must be dealt with & challenged openly.
However, do not forget, there are still several prominent Christians here, even orthodox Protestant preachers, who regularly revile and demonize homosexuals. Remember when the Bible Belt housewives who refused their children Harry Potter books claiming that the books were satanic? Perhaps comical soundbites for the media, yet absolutely not representative of the Dutch Majority.
Radical Moslims here who grab media attention, (which the media also plays up to), are not representative of the majority of Moslims living here.
Saturday 1 August 2009, 14:04
In response to Paige (37):
-there are no statistical data (CBS in the NL or otherwise) that support the claim that Moroccan women do well academically. There are data supporting that all women actually are poorly represented in the academic jobs (see the govt. initiative Women in Science for ex.) What is the source of your statement?
-parental leave in the NL is one of the worst in the EU. 4 months unpaid, max. Scandinavians have 1..2 years. Romanians & Bulgarians have 2 years. Germans have about 1 year. etc.
-Moroccan students 5..8 times less represented in higher education (university) than non-Moroccan ones (source: CBS)
-the crime problem is statistically related to the origin of the perpetrators in the NL, whether we/you like it or not. The fact that Moroccans are 6..8 overrepresented in criminal matters, correlated with their total numbers in the population, is simply statistically significant. If one were to determine e.g. that smokers have a 5..8 higher incidence for cancer for example, then this fact would be relevant and measures would be taken. Same for crime. Statistics is not racist – it’s statistics.
Tuesday 4 August 2009, 16:53
We will tolerate until we can tolerate no more. Some of the populous seem to think we may be getting to that point. I on the other hand feel that nothing can be resolved without talking. Politics was almost back to its ways before Fortuyn. In Holland when you are critical to an arab person you are a racist & Anne Frank gets dragged into the argument by her hair. GW IS critical & think that without a (his) voice to discuss the issues at hand the dutch will continue to become less tolerant.
YES during a debate with GW (if you can call it that) it was stated that Anne Frank (who we have protected so well) should go back into hiding now that GW is in parliament.
Now who’s sick?
Wednesday 5 August 2009, 15:58
“Statistics is not racist – it’s statistics.”
Not entirely true.
Statistics can and are commonly structured/computed to gain a certain result.