Fitna the movie: curse or blessing?
This posting was related to a special nrc.nl/international published in March and will no longer be moderated.
On Thursday 27th of March ‘Fitna the Movie’ was released by Geert Wilders, the right-wing populist politician who leads the anti-Islam and anti-immigration party PVV in Dutch parliament. The 17-minute long film shows images of the 9/11 assaults on the World Trade Centre in New York, London and Madrid. They are mixed with quotes by imams condemning infidels and calling for punishment of those who have betrayed Islam and the prophet. Several times the film also shows the famous Danish Mohammed cartoon with the bomb in the turban of the prophet.
Since the announcement of the movie in November it has stirred political turmoil in the Netherlands and protests in Islamic countries such as Afghanistan and Pakistan. Muslims around the world objected to, in their view, the misuse of the holy Koran, and burned Dutch flags on several occasions, bringing to mind the retaliations against the publication of cartoons portraying the prophet Muhammad in Danish newspapers in 2005. This prompted NATO Secretary General, and Dutchman, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer to express his concern that broadcasting the film could have an “impact” on the Dutch troops stationed in Afghanistan.
Meanwhile the Dutch government has repeatedly warned against possible damage to its commercial interests and the potential danger to its citizens abroad and called on Wilders to accept responsibility and cancel his plans to screen the film.
What is your view after watching the film itself? Has Wilders made an honest attempt to show ,,the intolerant and fascist nature of the Koran?” as he proclaimed earlier? Or do you see the film as pure propaganda, designed to further the political ends of his anti-Islamic crusade, causing deep divisions within society in the Netherlands, Europe and the world. And what, if any, do you believe its long term impact will be?
Please post your comments on the movie by clicking the line below.
Friday 28 March 2008, 15:50
This morning, after hearing on BBC World that Geert Wilders had finally managed to post his film on the net, I tried to look it up on the internet. Being in Aceh, Indonesia with a faltering internet connection, watching the 15 minute pamphlet took me something closer to 45 minutes. But the substance of this film was very relevant for me, a Dutch person living in one the most conservative areas of the biggest Moslem country in the world. If it was as horrible as some feared, I might had to answer some tough questions today at work
After the months-long build up of media attention and speculation on its contents, the actual film was bound to be something of an anti-climax. And indeed it was. The film contained no new information on Islam extremism or on Wilders’ twisted views on Islam. Again he is consciously mistaking a part for the total, taking violent extremists who are calling upon Islam to justify their atrocities to be the whole and only face on Islam. This is exemplified by his pathetic graph on the rise of the number Moslem people living in the Netherlands and Europe over the past decades. By doing this he insults and alienates the millions of moderate and peace loving Moslems who are also suffering from extremism and are allies in our strife against and terrorism. This graph also makes clear which audience Wilders is catering to: the segments of society that don’t like the changes that are taking place in their countries as a result of non-Western immigration.
The Dutch embassy in Jakarta is advising the Dutch community living in Indonesia to “keep a low profile.” Also, the security update for expats working in Aceh from the Aceh Reconstruction Agency (BRR) is advising Dutch citizens to avoid “overt displays of Dutchness” ( ). So am I worried? Not for a single second. During the Danish cartoon crisis all that happened here in Shari’at ruled Aceh was a small and peaceful demonstration in front of the EU Delegation. Ever since I arrived here one year ago I have been delighted by the benign and tolerant face of Islam that I see here every day.
Friday 28 March 2008, 18:15
The film may be alarmist and scaremongering and its overall impact may be xenophobic to a degree (the fact that the majority of (for instance) Dutch Mohammedans are peaceloving and law-abiding citizens was not mentioned), but one can’t say that the verses quoted from the Qur’an don’t do justice to the essential message of that book, which is “You better believe that I’m THE PROPHET or ELSE!
Friday 28 March 2008, 18:48
What do u want to see by disturbing muslim’s emotions.Do u hope that muslims violent to this movie and attacks on the non muslims.U see that muslims are very violent and agressive nation.would u ever think why they r so violent?they become agressive by seeing cartoons of there prophet.and would be agressive also by seeing this movie.It is all because they had connection with ther prophet and religion and u dont have.u would enjoy if cartoons of ur prophet would be made(which muslims will never do because they also belief on ur prophet and they also had belief on ur books)and if muslims humiliate ur prophet and ur books ; because u dont have connection to ur religion and dont have real belief on ur prophet and on ur books u want to see and enjoy muslims anger and violence then see what would happen to u and ur community.in this world and the world after death u may not believe on my thought but you have to believe when it would happen to u .muslims become violent because the have real belief on the almighty GOD and there prophet MUHAMMAD (S.A.W.)and ther holy book QURAN .ALLAH said in his book that HE is the creater of that book and is also the guardian to this book .u people r in great mistake.u have to pay for that some in this world and greatly in the world and life after death.
Friday 28 March 2008, 22:52
Peace and respect , that what we are willing to and no matter what some politicians/columnist/cartoonists etc.. are saying and writing about us .. Islam is still and will be the religion of peace and forgiveness . peace be upon you.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 0:32
As there is a time difference so when you read this I will be sleeping.
For me the movie had a great impact in as much it took all events that we have all seen of this peaceful religion & put it all into one powerful message.
I also noticed that the Web site is no longer hosting the video as they have been threatened. Point proven….
If we are expected to all be tolerent, then lets shut down all web sites that promote hate, show murders of inocent people. Muslims stir up non-Muslim emotions on a daily basis. This ALL needs to stop.
No one religion is superior to any other, as well all believe in the same thing-GOD.
Killing because of disagreeing solves nothing. It only promotes the belief that a certain religion IS violent.
I have lived in the Netherlands (my husband) is Dutch. We left due to many reasons but mostly because of too many immigrants, the citizens having their hard earned money going to people who choose not to work & sit back with their hand out.
I am American, I can sit on a bus without worry it will explode or I will be beaten by my husband.
Next year my husband will proudly become an American & we will sit back & watch Holland dissapear.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 12:58
There is nothing is this film that incites hatred against Muslims or encourages their persecution. Geert Wilders’ targets are ideas, not people. Specifically, he condemns intolerance, violence, bigotry, the subjugation of women, the execution of homosexuals, “adulterers”, and “blasphemers”, the murder of innocent civilians, the suppression of free speech, the immorality of war, and the cruelty of public floggings, beheadings, and amputations. It’s almost ludicrous that we are having a debate about this film. Who could support such things? Why aren’t Muslims demonstrating in the streets, demanding that Islam free itself of these abominations? At the very least, Muslims should be claiming that the accusations made in the film are false. Instead, they rail against the very idea that any criticism of Islam should be allowed at all. Cowardly Western politicians denounce the film, not because it is false, but because it will cause trouble. We in the West are truly finished if all we can count on is this kind of tepid, pathetic defense. Why not just simply capitulate and impose Sharia now? After all, it’s scary to defend our freedom and our values. Better to submit and be safe. The reaction to Wilders’ film fills me with disgust. Wilders is a hero who has risked his life to defend our most humane and sacred values. We need to have a real debate about the issues he raises.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 13:43
After reading your message i came out with one conclusion which scared me to know that some Americans still thinking black and white. you left Holland coz of the immigrants! pure racist! well how do you think yourself America became America that we know now? in the other hand let me comment on that part you r blaming the immigrants sitting back and earning money from government is untrue or did your husband brainwashed you the same way wilders is brain washing the little tiny minority telling them that immigrants most be kicked out cause they’re a real threat for the Hardwerkende nederlanders?
Holland is a wonderful place, Human rights and democracy is what we stand for.
please read some of your American history and don’t be ignorant.
i will never be proud to be american but always proud to be dutch and Holland is here to stay.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 15:05
I don’t understand why Moslems are so pissed off by this movie. It contains nothing but facts. It is their sacred book that direct quotations are made from enriched with footage of horrible things they did and horrible things their religious leaders said in public. 2 plus 2 makes 4. This a scientific fact. Why are you afraid of facts, logic, reason and common-sense?
Saturday 29 March 2008, 15:28
I fully agree, Mr Wilders is a hero. All desert religions were fabricated by selfish, self-centered, narrow-minded, female-phobic menfolk. Anyone fighting the religion, the biggest lie, the most horrendous fraud the world has ever seen is a hero. How gullible are the western politicians and the so-called liberals. Western civilisation is in great danger.Religious fanaticism, religion’s blinding darkness is more threatining than global warming on humans everywhere. Bravo and thanks Mr Wilders.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 17:08
From what I have seen it only shows scenes that are history at this time. True the Islamics did the things shown, True that the Koran teaches these things, True that we read about Islamics doing these same things in about 20 different countries today trying hard to establish a Islamic rule by force. So why should they protest about what is TRUE. I think maybe King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is waking up to the facts with his announcement of holding talks between all the regelions to promote peaceful coexistence. Maybe with these talks a way forward without wars and further bloodshed can be established. All it would take to stop the current killings is for all the Inmans to issue Fatwa´s against any one of the Muslim faith to kill another human. The question is do they have the courage to admit that they have been teaching hatred for over 1000 years against the western relegions and will now call for peaceful coexistence or not?
Saturday 29 March 2008, 17:21
I lived in Turkey for seven years until early this year. It is an interesting country. If Turkey is now miraculously part of the Western world that is thanks to a great leader Moustapha Kemal Ataturk Pasha.After the corrupt Ottoman Empire lost the First World War, and when there was no hope for Turks to meaningfully survive as an independent country his genius as a great military leader saved them. In 1923 he proclaimed the Republican regime in Turkey and in a very short period of time brought his country back into civilisation through radical reforms. This was a revolution and was inevitably carried out with a heavy hand. But this was the price the Turks had to pay for not having lived through renaissance, reformation, the enlightenment experience and the industrial revolution. This Turkish revival was based first and foremost on the principle of laicism, laicite or secularism. State affairs and life of the society would not in any way influenced by religion. Individuals were free to believe in whatever they liked, pray as they wished…but religion had to remain between them and their god.But when Turkey met with democracy in 1950 the greedy politicians started to exploit religion to get votes.
Now Turkey is governed by a political Islamist party. Secret religious sects are said to have penetrated into government departments. The most powerful of them is controlled by a former imam named Fethuallah Guulen, who is said to have links with the CIA and who has fled to US from Turkish justice.(Speculation has it that this guy was used by the CIA in the context of the American Green Belt project to encircle communist Russia from the south.)
Now, we come back to our gullible politicians and the so-called liberals in the West who support this Islamist party in Turkey in the name of democracy and at the expense of secularism, which is so fundamental for a Muslim country like Turkey. They are once again proving how short-sighted they are. Turkey is a truly unique country, so important for the West. By blindly clinging to ideals of democracy and by ignoring the realities of Turkey they are pushing this country back to the Ottoman times. Of course, democracy, liberalism and the like are dear to us. But Turkey is not France, UK, Switzerland. It came to this level of democracy, modernity and Westernisation only through Ataturk Pasha’s bold reforms, in particular through the prrinciple of laicism.If Turkey is lost to religious forces all the West will suffer.
Saturday 29 March 2008, 22:48
Dear Gullible dude,
It seems that your knowledge on Turkey is derived from the conversations you made with some ultra-nationalist/kemalist/secularist/militarist/low-intelligent Turkish dudes (who are by the way the counterparts of Geert Wilders). Or maybe you read those elementary school history books that are written to indoctrinate pupils. If you read Zurcher, Feroz Ahmad, Kemal Karpat, Umit Cizre, or other prominent students of Turkish politics, you might make smarter comments I am sure.
Coming to Wilders’ movie, it is nothing different than those trash we see in the internet everday. The outcome would be that the extremist Dutch people will again vote for Wilders, the extremist Islamist will again hate Wilders. So, nothing will change. All these discussion hides one truth: Extremism is the consequence of imperialism, exploitation, wars. As ex-Pink Floyd member Roger Water says in one of his songs: “Germans killed the Jews, the Jews killed the Arabs, and the Arabs killed the hostages. That is the news!” It is not the religion or holly book. Culture is not frozen. There is a constant change. Explaining everything regarding Muslim people with the religion and culture should be abondoned. This is so orientalist. When a Muslim guy beats his wife, it is because of Islam. But a Dutch guy beats his wife, it is probably because he had a bad childhood. Why whatever a Muslim does is ascribed to all religion and Muslims, and why a Western person does something bad, it is a personal story? It is funny that still some people are buying this.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 11:05
Fitna
Wha t is wrong with the Dutch government? The prime minister`s reaction was quite sickening. I feel sorry for Wilders living in a country where muslims are given a better treatment in society than the dutch people. Why do many dutch people emigrate to other countries? like Norway. From what I have heard they complain about the way their country is ruled. The Netherlands is a very small country,overcrowded with muslim immigrants, this make them feel like strangers in their own country. I quite agree with Wilders making this film, so people can see what is going on in the world. If Europe doesn`t react now, it will be too late. But I hope the politicans will be punish for having ruined the country.What is Wilders film compared to the videos made by muslims, these can be watched on You Tube. These videos show how muslims threaten the Vestern world, and this is frightening.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 11:40
As a resident of the Netherlands I can not undertand why there is such a large platform for this topic (nationally and internationally). A large majority of the Dutch interact with eachother (from all cultures) without any problem, at home, at school, at work. New generations of Dutch are less and less aware of cultural differences – The youth that speaks streetlingo are no where near as stereotype as one would suggest.
Please remember that what happens now is that one politician, who represents a very small group in the Netherlands, abuses the sensation-eager media (and they fell for it) to generalize his thougths on the matter. Furthermore, he also generalizes other cultures and quite conviently focusses on incidents and situations that have to be placed in an entirely different context.
Instead of giving people with certain fear a perspective to build confidence in their own abilities, this man takes away all responsibility from individual people (referred to as “us” or “ours”) and blames “them”. A dangerous devellopment, true, which has been delt with in the recent past.
Be informed that one large complaint in the Netherlands is, that the nation becomes more en more an individualistic society. I share that insight and it opposes entirely the idea that the Netherlands is united in the extreme nationalistic thoughts of a very few.
Wisdom and love to you all.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 14:39
Re: “When a Muslim guy beats his wife, it is because of Islam. But a Dutch guy beats his wife, it is probably because he had a bad childhood.”. The issue here is that Islam tacitly and even explicitly approves of wife beating (albeit nominally within limits), while the “dutch guy” (bad childhood not withstanding) is treated like the criminal he is. No Priest, Rabbi or Pastor is going to insist that wife-beating is a God-given right. The same cannot be said for Muslims.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 14:40
I don’t think Fitna the film is inciting. It is DISTURBING. Exceedingly disturbing. And as such, it’s not objective. But who said it’s supposed to be?!
This film isn’t about historical, or cultural, or theological, or investigative discoveries. Everyone agrees with that, and the media and politicians stop at that. BUT…It expresses an emotion – one of anxiety. I’ll repeat: it expressed my personal anxiety about Islam very well. I’m sure many people in Europe feel now that their fears and concerns got finally expressed in the media.
This anxiety is caused by a disturbingly widening gap between two tendencies. On one hand, we have got a statistical minority of Muslims that, by now, seem to be willing and capable of blowing up just about anything in the West. And in the East. On the same hand, we have got, it seems, not quite a minority of Islamic preachers fueling the passions of that active radical minority.
On the other hand, we are ‘blessed’ with politicians that contracted the suicidal academic delusion. Those keep telling us that the MAJORITY of Muslims are harmless. And good, and kind, and peace-loving, and so on. Which is the obvious and undeniable truth, of course. But why do I want to scream ‘SOS!!! SOS!!! SOS!!!’, when hear this?
Because of the gap between the growing effectiveness of the ‘minority’ and the glaring inertness, at best, of the ‘MAJORITY’.
In the face of this, I don’t care about the statistics until I’m protected. I want the politicians to stop avoiding this BURNING issue and address it. And no one will make me feel protected, if, after a major radioactive spill in a lake here in Ontario, they say: ‘We’ll go after every radioactive molecule in the lake and take it out. In the meantime, don’t worry: the majority of the molecules in the lake are harmless water!’ NO. I want the waters of the entire lake blocked, first. Then, do what you need with it.
Then, I feel protected. Then, we can discuss the academic issues: statistics, verses, Holy Books, and so on.
We need the mainstream politicians to wake up. Last thing we need is leave the issues of life and death of our civilization in the hands of our fringe and their fanatics, because there’s no better recipe for disaster
Sunday 30 March 2008, 14:48
I have got a question to all the Muslim participants of this discussion: Could you please refer me to a Muslim source (news website, blog, discussion) where Muslims would say: ‘Look how Europeans are scared of us. We have got to do something to fix that!”?
Sunday 30 March 2008, 16:19
Naftali, if you looked at the statements made by all the mainstream Muslim communities in the Netherlands, in Europe, and across the world, easily you can see that they are disturbed by being equated with some extremists. Muslims, as all the human beings, want to have a decent life wherever they live.
However, let’s not forget the blody truth that it is Muslims all over the world being killed by European armies in the past, and American marines and Israeli soldiers in the present. It is also Muslim that are being killed and tortured by those dictators and kings that are allies of the USA and the UK. We got to see the both sides of the story. Some Muslims do not become extremist because they read Quran. If you look at the last 100 years, reasons are lying there!
So again, I ask all to stop basing your arguments on the religion itself, and concentrate more on the socio-economic truths and historical facts because if we concentrate on religion, no one could say that Christian history is less bloody or today conservative Christians do not believe that women are inferior to man. Or no one can say that today, Jews, killing Arabs in Palestine, do not have any religious justifications. Or no one can say that G W Bush, who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, is not a faithful Christian.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 16:37
I study in the Netherlands and have many non-Muslim Dutch friends none of who “feel like strangers” in this country, or afraid of increasing Muslim population.
There is also one thing should be mentioned. In Wilders movie, why do you think that the number of Muslims in the Netherlands are illustrated only until 2004? It is because after that year, the number has decreased from 944.000 to 837.000! So do not exaggerate things. And let’s name it correctly: it is not a “fear” but it is “politics of fear” and hate!!!
Sunday 30 March 2008, 16:53
I think Holland has a great deal to worry about. I have no doubt the Dutch muslims are peaceful,nonviolent and make love (and have lots of babies). I believe they are near 20% of the population. However if they were to become 40% or more of the voting population which will happen within 20 years they can democratically change holland into a islamic republic where sharia is the law of the land. I think christian and atheist holland has a lot to worry about.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 19:02
As was pointed out by other posters, what about the film is not true? All the film shows is what actually happened? When the news showed the 9/11 attacks or the London and Madrid bombings, was that also inciting violence? After all, it also showed Muslim violence. What’s the difference between the news showing Muslim violence and Fitna showing the same exact things? Also, if showing Muslim violence is insulting to Muslims, shouldn’t Muslims be protesting against the offending Muslims, the ones that insult Islam by committing these atrocities?
Sunday 30 March 2008, 19:49
Mr Mehmet Arif,
You are probably Turkish and about 30 years old.I read most of the books written by those scholars mentioned in your message. But, I also traveled all over Turkey and talked with all kinds of people. I don’t know whether you had this opportunity. With all due respect, Turkey is a third world country. If it is part of the Western world to-day it is because of what Moustafa Kemal Pasha did for your country. He was a revolutionary and inevitably resorted to revolutionary methods. Was there any other option? More than 90 percent of Turkey’s population was illiterate. Greeks and Armenians, who were the backbone of your country’s economy had been eliminated. In short, what Kamal Pasha did in a short period of time was incredible, it was a miracle. As I mentioned in my message, laicism, secularism that he introduced into Turkish public life was and is the most important factor for Turkey’s survival in this hostile world.
I am an atheist and believe that all desert religions are based on lies, tales, and are projects of social engineering taking advantage of human weakness in understanding the mysteries of the universe. Laicism is a compromise which has to be struck between a system of lies,i.e. religion, unfortunately a human condition, and reality, i.e. logic, reason and common-sense. I hope my Turkish friends understand this and follow Ataturk Pasha’s line.
Sunday 30 March 2008, 23:17
Naftali, if you looked at the statements made by all the mainstream Muslim communities in the Netherlands, in Europe, and across the world, easily you can see that they are disturbed by being equated with some extremists. Muslims, as all the human beings, want to have a decent life wherever they live.
Mehmed Arif
Mehmed
See, you’re proving I’m right in the most convincing way – unwittingly. Because you didn’t even care to understand my question. You are typical in your hurry to prove your point. But I did NOT ask for a reference to your concerns about yourselves. I asked for an example of you being concerned of the Europeans, Christians, or whatever you call them. I mean caring a bit for the other side! Never occured to you, huh?
Look at the Christians (by the way, I am not one). Look how many of them are ready to understand the other side – you. Show me the same among moderate Muslims, please.
Monday 31 March 2008, 10:22
Islam The Religion Of Peace?
Some Information Very Long.
Muslim Scholars Saying Rape Is Okay If Muslims Rape A Non-Muslim.
Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid
Mehdi created uproar when – like his peer in Australia – he stated
that women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.
And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported
that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female
rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when
they were raped. He added, “For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped
woman must have shown good conduct.”
THE ROLE OF MUSLIMS IN NAZI GERMANY.
Himmler: “Muslims responded to the call of Muslim leaders and joined our side because of their hatred of our joint Jewish-English-Bolshevik enemies, and because of their belief and respect for, above all — Our Fuehrer.”
Many Muslim clerics in Bosnia and Kosovo were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens – 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, they were helped by Muslim fundamentalists in Bosnia and Kosovo who were openly supported by the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini.
He (Mufti of Jerusalem) openly encouraged Muslims to join Nazi units that would be later implicated in genocide and crimes against humanity – the infamous Hanjar (or Handschar) 13th Waffen SS division. One of these crimes was the The Massacre at Koritska Jama Gorge, in Bosnia during 1941.
The most senior Muslim cleric to be involved in the Holocaust/Porajmos was Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who made a substantial contribution to the Axis war effort by organizing “in record time” recruitment to Muslim SS units in Croatia that would be involved in some of the worse atrocities of the Second World War.
It is estimated that some 20,000 Muslims fought in the Hanjar (Sword) SS Division
The Nazi’s recruited two SS divisions from Yugoslavia’s Muslim population: the infamous Bosnian 13th Waffen Hanjar (or Handschar) SS division, and the Albanian Skanderbeg 21st Waffen SS division 42,000 muslims joined.
60000 Muslims joined Hitler’s SS in the Second World War Altogether.
Muslim volunteers from the Handzar division. All wear the fez. Their logo consists of a skull and crossbones and an SS eagle. The fez was worn by the Muslim soldiers and their German officers alike. There were different models of fez in different colors (green or red and with or without the tassel). A scimitar or curved sword and a swastika were engraved on uniform collars.
Arafat: “We are not Afghanistan We are the Mighty People. Were they able to replace our hero Hajj Amin al-Husseini? There were a number of attempts to get rid of Hajj Amin, whom they considered an ally of the Nazis. But even so, he lived in Cairo, and participated in the 1948 war, and I was one of his troops.”
Muslim conquests (632-732), or the Islamic conquests ALL IN THE NAME OF PEACE. And We Have people still saying it’s the Religion of peace! Can’t you people read? Or Do I Have To Spell It Out To You Over And Over Again???
Byzantine-Arab Wars: 634-750
The conquest of Syria, 637
The conquest of Armenia, 639
The conquest of Egypt, 639
The conquest of North Africa, 652
Conquest of Transoxiana: 662-709
Conquest of Sindh: 664-712
The conquest of North Africa, 665
Conquest of Nubia: 700-1606
Conquest of Hispania: 711-718
Conquest of the Caucasus: 711-750
The second Arab siege of Constantinople 717-718
The conquest of Tbilisi, 736
The conquest of southern Italy, 827
Conquest of Anatolia: 1060-1360
Byzantine-Ottoman Wars: 1299-1453
Further conquests: 1200-1800
In Sub-Saharan Africa, the Sahelian kingdom expanded Muslim territories far from the coast. Muslim traders spread Islam to kingdoms across Zanj along the east African coast, and to Southeast Asia and the sultanates of Southeast Asia such as those of Mataram and Sulu.
After the Mongol Empire destroyed the Abbasid Caliphate, after the Battle of Baghdad (1258), they conquered Muslim lands but soon converted to Islam, beginning an era of Turkic and Mongol expansions of Muslim rule into Eastern Europe under the Golden Horde; across Central Asia under Timur, founder of the Timurid dynasty; and later into the Indian subcontinent under his descendant Babur, founder of the Mughal Empire. Meanwhile in the 17th century, Moors were conducting raids into Western and Northern Europe, as far as Britain and Iceland.
Those who believe, fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Satan. So fight you against the friends of Satan. Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Satan.
—Qur’an, [Qur’an 4:76]
Monday 31 March 2008, 10:23
10 Reasons Why Islam Is Not Peaceful.
#1 10,000 deadly terror attacks committed explicitly in the name of Islam in just the last six years. (Other religions combined for perhaps a dozen or so).
#2 Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or criticizing his religion. This included women. Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#3 Muhammad said in many places that he has been “ordered by Allah to fight men until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger.” In the last nine years of his life, he ordered no less than 65 military campaigns to do exactly that.
Muhammad inspired his men to war with the basest of motives, using captured loot, sex and a gluttonous paradise as incentives. He beheaded captives, enslaved children and raped women captured in battle. Again, Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
#4 After Muhammad died, the people who lived with him, and knew his religion best, immediately fell into war with each other.
Muhammad’s favorite daughter, Fatima, and her husband, Ali (the second convert to Islam, who was raised like a son to Muhammad) fought a war against an army raised by Aisha, Muhammad’s favorite wife – and one whom he had said was the “perfect woman.”
Not only was her husband, Ali, eventually murdered, but Fatima (who survived the early years at Mecca safe and sound) died of stress from the persecution of fellow Muslims only three months after her father died.
Three of the first four Muslim rulers (caliphs) were murdered. All of them were among Muhammad’s closest companions. The third caliph was killed by the son of the first. The fourth caliph was killed by the fifth, who subsequently poisoned one of Muhammad’s two favorite grandsons. Muhammad’s other grandson was later beheaded by the sixth caliph.
Within 50 years, the Kaaba, which had stood for centuries under pagan religion, lay in ruins from internal Muslim war.
#5 Muhammad directed Muslims to wage war on other religions and bring them under submission to Islam. Within the first few decades following his death, his Arabian companions invaded and conquered Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and Zoroastrian lands.
#6 Muslims continued their Jihad against other religions for 1400 years, checked only by the ability of non-Muslims to defend themselves. To this day, not a week goes by that Islamic fundamentalists do not attempt to kill Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists explicitly in the name of Allah.
None of these other religions are at war with each other.
#7 Islam is the only religion that has to retain its membership by threatening to kill anyone who leaves. This is according to the example set by Muhammad.
#8 Islam teaches that non-Muslims are less than fully human. Muhammad said that Muslims can be put to death for murder, but that a Muslim could never be put to death for killing a non-Muslim.
#9
The Qur’an never once speaks of Allah’s love for non-Muslims, but it speaks of Allah’s cruelty toward and hatred of non-Muslims more than 500 times.
#10
“Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!”
(The last words from the cockpit of Flight 93)
Monday 31 March 2008, 15:31
When Theo van Gogh was murdered on the streets, I wondered how this could happen. A Muslim who believed he had the right/duty to kill van Gogh because he believed differently from him perpetrated the crime. And it was a crime. Apparently there are many Muslims who want to kill non-Muslims for the same reason…and they walk in the streets with signs saying ‘Kill Geert Wilders’, ‘Kill Americans’, kill, kill, kill. Westerners should be afriad of this and make every effort to protect themselves from a culture/religion that advocates this. Self-preservation should be a strong motivation for non-Muslims everywhere!
Monday 31 March 2008, 17:20
I think Mr Wilders spoke the truth concerning extremists within the Muslim community. I do not believe he protrayed the whole community just those who wish to control by violence. Every religion have extremists within them, those who wish to control
everything and everybody and force their beliefs on everyone. Their philosophy is believe what I tell you to believe or die. They do not want people to know the truth for it exposes their agenda. Don’t think for yourself because I know what’s best for you. People have been fighting this kind of thinking
for a long time. It is said that Muslims and non-Muslims worship the same God, but the God I worship
sent his only Son to pay the extreme price out of Love not hate. Jesus allowed himself to be abused and be killed out of Love for Gods creation. He even
taught us to love our enemies and to do good towards those who would even do us harm and not to think highly of ourselves.
In reading the other comments it seems the majority agree with Mr Wilders intrepretation of what the World is experiencing from these extremists. Most everyone does not wish to be told what to do or how to think. America has fought a number of wars against
this type of thinking. It seems that the extremists view of what Muhammad taught about God was all about hate. It seems that many feel Mr Wilders film was about hate towards Muslims and they wish to suppress the film. I think those of the Muslim community who do not agree with the violence and hatred know it is not directed towards them. I believe even they have to be careful within their own community to keep from being ostracized and threatened. I wish to thank
those who are giving us the chance to express our opinions. I hope the Dutch people and the Muslim community that we are praying for them and wish them
the best
Monday 31 March 2008, 17:56
Naftali, what should Muslims do to convince you or Europeans that they only look for a decent life, but nothing else? I don’t understand that! For example, in the Netherlands, there are approximately one million Muslims (and that is not 20 %, another exaggeration made above by Dov, unless the Dutch population is less than 5 million). A huge proportion of this population lives in peace with non-Muslim Dutch. And all of them blamed Muhammed B., right? So why still what Muhammed B done is ascribed to all Muslims leaving in Europe?
I am not saying that there is no problems at all. Yes, there are problems for example with high crime rates or low levels of education among Muslim minorities. However, this is not stemmed from the religion, but from the social class or economic status.
And Gullible, to read Turkish history as a radical rupture from the Ottoman is very old fashion, believe me. Ottoman from 18th century started reformation and westernization. And during the War of Independence and aftermath, there were many important figures other than Mustafa Kemal. And besides secularism, Turkish elite pragmatically used Islam and the legacy of Ottoman when they needed.
And finaly Templer… If we talk about the bloody history, then perhaps we should accepth that there are more bloody stories in the Western history. To start with, Jesus, the prophet himself murdered. Than the looooong history of killing, blood-shed, torturing in the name of Christianity (burning woman alive for they charged witchcraft is just an example, i may give dozens others). Then the wars between the sects, between Catholics and Protestants. Not to mention the first and second world wars. But I am not saying that all these prove that Christianity is violent or not peaciful. Or I am not saying that all Christians are inclined to bloodshed. But Wilders and his supporters say something similar to that about Islam and Muslims.
As Henry de Winter aptly stated, Wilders would be charged of anti-semitism if he said similar bullshit on Judaism. And the old Testament has some violent passages as well, such as hatred of homosexuals, hatred of woman, or murdering non-Jews.
You cannot blame a religion or its believers just because of those who got power and used religion for the sake of their authority.
Monday 31 March 2008, 18:33
What provocation? There is nothing provocative in this movie. The images, the slogans, the Islamic verses – they are one click away on cyberspace. Wilders merely grouped together what Muslims themselves have delighted us with over the years. So, why would Muslims be offended by their own words, by their own actions? ‘There is no Free Speech in Islam’, ‘Death to Europe’ etc … Who is offending who? And as for moderate Islam… it is well known fact that Muslims lie low when they are in a minority. Who said this? Muslims themselves of course. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-7376383576200112530&q=islam+bbc&total=1178&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8
Tuesday 1 April 2008, 14:56
Good for Mr. Wilders! There is nothing in this film but facts and history. And sometimes, the truth hurts. It’s Muslims, not Christians or Jews or Buddists running around with signs demanding everyones head be chopped off. It’s muslims, not christians, Jews or Buddists blowing things up in the name of thier God. Free speech must be free to incite or it is not free at all. Governments that kowtow to people because they are afraid of backlash do not deserve security or peace. The truth is what it is. History is what it is. Deal with it, and learn or it may be too late.
Tuesday 1 April 2008, 15:36
Most Dutch fortunately do not agree with Geert Wilders’ statements. Fact remains however that he is the spokesman of a considerable minority of Dutch who are afraid of Muslims. They do not know anything about the Muslim creed and have never been inside a mosque. They base their opinions mosty on the television news about ‘Muslim’ terrorism. These minorities exist in all Western countries.
Of course most Muslims living in Western countries are against terrorism. However, just like the many Americans in the sixties and seventies who braved abuse and bullets to protest against the Vietnam War officially waged in their name, moderate Muslims should protest against the terrorist violence inflicted in the name of Islam. For them to be silent now is a sin against humanity.
Tuesday 1 April 2008, 15:48
I must say that I agree to a high degree with Mr Mehmet Arif (#18). It seems to me, the justification that these so-called terrorists (which I think is a word that should be used with more caution, by the way) find in the Quran and Islamic traditions, come after the act and are not the main cause for them. Their religious justification is rather, in a way coincidental: fifty years ago, they might have done the same in name of communism (remember the RAF, the brigate rosse and so forth). On the other hand, had China been a Muslim (or, for that matter, a Christian) state, it might have used Islam as a justification for its recent actions in Tibet. So what I am saying is, I believe that at the core these violent fundamentalist muslims have other (most likely socio-economic) motives and they happen to use (or abuse) Islam as a tool to further their cause, but their actions are, fundamentally, not inspired by Islam itself.
And more specifically regarding the Dutch situation, even if there were to come a strong Islamic influence on Dutch culture and civilisation, so what? How much is left of the pagan Germanic tribal societies that lived here two thousand years ago. In what way would a change to a more Islamic society (if there even exists such a thing) be different from the Christianisation a couple of centuries ago? These things happen. It’s called “progression” – although, by right, it should just be called “change”. I wonder if the changes brought on by technology, such as modern communication technology, are not far more profound than anything Islam (or any other faith or world view) could ever achieve.
And lastly, concerning the facts in Wilders’ motion picture. The message is not the facts, that are generally well-known, it’s the emotion that they are to convey by the context they are presented in. Which is also why attacking the facts in the film does not really serve the end of discrediting it. Of course, Muhammed can never have used the verb ‘to terrorize’ in the way Wilders’ is suggesting, as the whole concept would take many centuries from Muhammed’s days to come to light, and of course, it’s scientifically very undesirable to cite only the part that you should build an army to fill you opponents with awe and to leave out the next phrase stating that you should not use that army if your opponents asks for peace – but that is not the point. His point is rather that the people should fear, for a people filled with fear is much more easily herded than a people that thinks for itself.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 8:56
I,m not worried about publication of this film or kartoon about my profit Muhamed( Rasol ALLAH ) or about anything that try to distort the picture of Koran as with each event more and more people that not listen about islam will be asked and i,m sure that a lot of people will enter to islam after these events.ALLAH ( my GOD ) is the only one that able to maintain Koran.So,many people that did not know anything about Koran or Profit Muhamed will try to ask and they will reach to wright.You should follow in the following days the number of people that will enter to islam without a great effort from moslims.Wilder,s do what you need but welling of ALLAH over all things and i hope to said that profit Muhamed not like as you think so i hope from you to not only to read but also should understand islam very well.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 9:58
I agree with what Mr. Wilders has to say about Islam. Looking at the film guides you to his reasoning of what the Koran is. Of course the images used are archives from different footages but his point is this : Islam is a religion that preaches violence for those non-believers or what muslims call infidels (so, where’s freedom of religion in this?) Nobody can claim that his is the right religion/ideology, that’s why in democratic world we respect each others belief and this is not what is in the Koran. About the item of comparison in beating ones wife, in the Koran, its OK for Allah to beat your wife…in other religion…wives are beaten for causes that are human in nature..not religious…an this is what makes Islam dangerous…
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 11:31
It may be true that moderate muslims in Western countries should not be silent and should protest against violence in the name of Islam.
But wouldn’t they be stopped by a realistic fear that they will be targeted by that same violence?
Aren’t most of us now stopped from even considering a critical statement for fear of our life being threatened?
Shouldn’t the focus of our government be, first of all, on insisting that no one threatens violence against anyone, including our muslims, for their views?
Although I am frightened by violence in news items like the ones shown in Mr. Wilders film, I can sincerely say that my daily life in The Netherlands has improved thanks to contact with a muslim here.
I occasionally talked with a muslim, Pakistani mother when our children played together. She loved living in Holland because she was able to go out independently and meet with her friends and attend language classes, whereas back in Pakistan she was mostly confined to her apartment because she could not go out alone.
One day she asked me; “Do you drink alcohol?” To which I answered “sure”. Then she asked, friendly and sincerely; “Why?” This simple question was the start of me questioning the sense of regular use of alcohol, which, to me as it is to most Dutch people, was almost obligatory in social settings. I very rarely drink alcohol now, despite comments of surprise and disappointment. It has changed and improved my life. You may correctly say you don’t need Islam to change your mind about using alcohol, but she was the only person I have ever met who has sincerely asked me why and I thank her for it.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 15:56
To Gerben S (#32) let me say that influence is one thing, but what the militant Islamists want is way way more than influence! They want to kill you and me now, today, because we are infidels, so any comparisons to what Christianity has done in the past, or what changes technology is bringing to the world are beside the point. Any ‘change’ that takes us back to being forced to behave in ways that were ok in the 7th century when stoning was acceptable (to cite one example), is certainly not acceptable today to me. That is not progression, it’s regression. To Bregje (#35): Moderate Muslims who politely encourage us to abstain from alcohol are to be applauded but they too will someday be beside the point, if radical Islamists take over. If women like her, like you and like me, don’t stand up, we might all be like she was in Pakistan, confined to our houses. Governments will only act if their constituents demand it, and people should demand that radical Muslims be stopped from advocating violence against non Muslims.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 17:07
The greatness of the west in terms of economic power is directly related to it’s scientific tradition. Science is based on empirical knowledge. This runs contrary to any mystic or religious knowledge as expressed in the scriptures.
The only way Islam can become a balanced, life sustaining factor in the world is when it’s believers actively throw out the preachers who forbid the participation in scientific thought. Emotionally I find that most muslims I relate to are well developed people. But intellectually, many of them are a bit slow. They don’t seem to be able to distinguish between the truths of the holy book and the things they themselves have found to be true. In other words, there is no intellectual conscience, only an emotional one. This heart-mind onflict is what is being resolved in the coming decades, as muslim women in Holland get educated and grow an increasingly strong urge to break their minds free from the dictate of their patriarchal background.
Geert Wilders film is a ripple in the pond. It’s effects will face quickly. The Netherlands will need something much smarter and more belevolent to help muslims in their quest for emancipation. But knowing the Dutch mind, I have no doubt that solutions are on their way. If any people on Earth can liberate the religious mind without compromising the heart, it’s us.
God bless,
Gedulah
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 18:34
Geert Wilders’s film moved me to tears. As a homosexual, I was crying by seeing again the photographs of the two young gay Iranians executed for homosexuality. It is high time for everybody to wake up to the truth about Islam; this “religion” kills those whom it sees as perverts and this is not tolerable in the XXIth century. It’s the same thing for people who commit apostasy (abandoning one’s faith) and women who commit adultery. Dank u wel, meneer Geert Wilders! (Thank you, Mr Wilders!) As a homosexual, I see this “religion” as dangerous for homosexuals, transsexuals but also for heterosexuals around the world. The suicide rate of homosexuals in Muslim countries is high, because many of them are so ostracized and so ill-treated by the local population that they commit suicide. Now Iraqi gays are suffering intense persecution. In 2005, Iraq’s leading Shiite Muslim cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani, issued a fatwa, or religious decree, which declared that gays and lesbians should be “killed in the worst, most severe way”. Since then, homosexual and transsexual people have been specifically targeted by the Madhi Army, the militia of fundamentalist Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, as well as other Shia militant death squads and the Iraqi police. HIV/AIDS patients are also killed simply because they have the disease. They are doomed … just killed because the Islamist militias and the Iraqi police see them as prostitutes, and immoral sexually”. So, HIV/AIDS patients cannot declare their situation to the health authorities because they will get killed.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, 19:14
I do not see what the problem is with this film, I agree with Mr. Wilders, He has the courage to show what Muslims really think about us Westerners. Even at an early age, they teach their children to hate westerners. I often wonder if this so called religion of peace is so deceptive, everytime there is a bombing against westerners, you never see any of the so called clerics denouncing these acts, instead the majority of them are dancing and partying in the streets. I really feel sorry for the Europeans that have to put up with muslims changing their way of life, this should offend all Europeans, since our freedom of speech always offends them.
http://www.dotsub.com/films/moredemands/index.php?autostart=true&language_setting=en_1618
Thursday 3 April 2008, 10:38
I quite honestly don’t understand in what this film is so controversial…its about things weve seen on the news, with a touch of blind hatred which is unexplained in th film…
When he announced the release of an anti-Islam film, I expected it to be more related to the problems in day to day life affecting people like you and me, which i think is the real reason why the average person here is, i must say, rightfully ‘fed up’ -…. grandmothers getting mugged, young boys beating up everything thats in their way, drug dealers, in general the epitome of disrespect towards society and the country that welcomed them… Link that to crime, healthcare, drug problem….the figures do add up, and im sure Dutch society could do without them.
Dutch politicians for fear of getting killed, are too shy and chauvinist that they turn a blind eye to the causes and reality of this country’s problems to the point they won’t even admit that Wilders at least to some extent has a valid point…
Thursday 3 April 2008, 14:49
Apparently Geert Wilders was so depressed after the critics trashed his movie that he called Lifeline.
He got a call center in Pakistan.
He told them he was suicidal.
They got all excited and asked if he could drive a truck.
Thursday 3 April 2008, 20:19
If a cartoon was published of Jesus on the cross with a bomb and an exploding bucket of nails, we could merely look to his teachings to see the image is the opposite of truth and not the path to God that Jesus speaks of. We could rationally discuss and debate this in newspapers. In the past we may have had terrible violence over this, but as a society we have evolved to a more tolerant thoughtful world that talks things over. Lets hope we can keep the freedom to talk things over and keep the world evolving toward a more peaceful civilized place.
Friday 4 April 2008, 5:58
I don’t agree with welder on many things – but yet we should thank him for giving the world another wake up call.
A document that indoctrinates murder, terror, insult, and human right abuses- the Quran- Anyone who reads it has no room left for interpretation – its true hard core terrorist doctrine. The Islam ( which preaches terror to everyone Jews, Christians, Hindu’s and everyone else ) is worse than communism (who didn’t believe in god) , or Nazi’s.
Several people appear to be taking the easy path to censuring documents, movies on the basis of “not offending, or fear from Islamic terrorism or FATWA – a death threat or in other words an open act of terror. Stop being a chicken. Stand up for truth however harsh it may be.
What Wielder has done is to show a tiny sample of what’s in the Quran and how Isalmists have used this to terrorize and commit murderous/ heinous acts. If you doubt this; read Quran; ask all the people that continue to be under the direct influence of such malice – the Jews and Indians who have gone through thousands of years of such terror. All such terror activities by the Isalmists have not only been documented with many historical incidences, we have witnessed them with horror on TV.
Wielder is the bold amongst us who is unwilling to budge from truth and call a spades a spades. The Quran and the terrorists it inspires are malice to the world of democratic civil citizens of the world.
How can Islamists find offence in what’s written in Quran. Its their Quran. I call on every civic minded Islamists to vocally and factually raise a storm of opposition against activists that do harm to rest. Re-write the Quran with a “new testament” that removes all the terror indoctrinations and then the whole world will be behind them.
But if they insist on carrying out the actions as it is in Quran and try to provide interpretations in contrary to their actions condoned by other Islamists – the menace will continue. We must stop this menace
Saturday 5 April 2008, 1:09
I’m shocked. Why don’t you all think?
The question is whether Wilders’ film is an insult to Muslims that should be banned or whether this should not be done.
To ban the film, first of all it has no sense to do that when that is impossible. It is out there and I can’t see how that can be undone with all the mirror sites recasting it. So, from a practical point, it is unattainable.
Second, there is no way to ban something that may well tell the truth. What? No. Stop. Think. What I mean is that if you can’t prove that it contains lies, there is no way to ban it no matter how insulted you feel. So there you have it. Provide the proof.
But that will be hard. The core of the film consists of verses from the Quran that, at least the translation into Dutch, sound quite ominous to non-Muslims. Are they translated wrong? I doubt that. Is their meaning misrepresentated, do they actually mean something benign? Not really, obviously mr. Wilders has not selected these verses by himself but copied them from the various Islamic websites where extremists use them to justify their acts.
Having said that I acknowledge that the majority of Muslims are peace-loving and have as much respect for non-Muslims as for anyone else (do you?)
Yet there is undenyingly also an uncomfortingly large minority of Muslims who take the quoted verses literally, with all the ominous results. All those people who were killed in or fled the south of Sudan have little reason to admire the peace-loving qualities of Islam, as their experience showed something different. Which is not exceptional; it happens almost everywhere where countries with a Muslim majority border countries where the majority is non-Muslim.
To be fair, this is not an Islamic problem. Until recently Christians have commited conmparable crimes at an even larger scale which only and reluctantly deminished under the constant criticism of humanists since the mid 1950s.
The problem is not whether Islam is a threat or not; I consider that a fact, as the atheïst in me is not insensitive to their implicit and explicit insults and worse. But Islam is not alone in that. Most of the major religions have a tendency of taking out on everyone who thinks differently.
Let’s break down the great facade now. There are thousands of religions in this world, and none of them accepts any of the other to tell the truth.
So either only one of them has got it right, or none. But who can tell which is right?
Oh, I know, YOUR religion is the TRUE one and all the others are wrong. So, how did you get that knowledge? I bet your parents told you?
I do not want to disturb you. But you need to understand that religions in general are more than just safe havens for those who fear what happens when they die. They are organizations that do everything they need to protect their own interests, for good or for bad; like claiming everything that is good as a work of God, declaring war holy, stifling criticism, repeating their virtues endlessly until everyone is brainwashed into believing it, etcetera.
No doubt you will understand this to be true for all other religions than your own. So why should yours be different?
Luckily the good things of life, like aid, compassion, love, comradery, etc. are not unique to religious people, no matter to what they believe. The pure fact that atheïsts don’t expect their acts to grant them passage to heaven makes every good act they perform even more valuable, because it is truly selfless.
Because of this, I have to say I like non-religious people just a bit more than those who do believe, although I respect those too (even married one in harmony and all). Religion is a choice, it should never be an obligation.
This is of course not Wilders’ message. Never mind the fool. By singleing out Islam he missed the true cause of the problem: the mechanisms that ancient self-proclaimed prophets have construed to serve their own goals, and that have spiralled out of control like the pyramid game that they really are; sweeping the minds of billions, sometimes to their benefit but often to their demise.
If Islam is the right way all I wrote is untrue and worthless.
I tell you it could be otherwise. I will not tell you 5 times a day; only once, here and now.
Everything that is true does not have to be repeated endlessly. You know 2 + 2 is 4, no need to repeat it. If you say God is great, the logic evades me. If you tell me more than once I suspect something fishy; I heard you already, why repeat it?
Enough said, I made my point. Take it or leave it.
Saturday 5 April 2008, 3:23
“By doing this he insults and alienates the millions of moderate and peace loving Moslems who are also suffering from extremism and are allies in our strife against and terrorism.”
More lies from leftists appeasing islam in the hopes it will help bring down the West.
If there are so many “millions” where are they marching in the streets, where are they throwing their incendiary imams out in the street & “taking back” their “religion.
They aren’t because they don’t exist”. Farakhan had the right phrase, but his pointing finger concealed his hand pointing back at himself:
ISLAM is the gutter “religion”. Islam is a death cult.
Is;am doesn’t mean “peace” it translates as submission.
One in four” of U.S. Muslims under 30 “say suicide bombings to defend their religion are acceptable at least in some circumstances”"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/016565.php
I learned all I need to know about Islam on 9/11. And again in Bali, and in London, and then in Madrid, and in Beslan, and every day in Darfur, and in Israel.
What will it take you to learn the truth about Islam, a smoking hole in the ground of your city with thousands of YOUR countrymen dead?
Islam is a “religion” the way Auschwitz is an amusement park.
The Koran: The Islamic Mein Kampf.
http://terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
Saturday 5 April 2008, 20:03
Well it seems the Islamic countries react calmly to this whole sharade. Good. That’s over and done with, then. Wilders whole point was to see how muslims would react. They reacted in a normal way. So that’s out of the way then, we can continue with more meaningful fights, like the preservation of the rainforests.
Thursday 10 April 2008, 23:37
There is something about this film that people keep ignoring. All these events DID happen. The koran does say those things, and is quoted accurately. HOwever NO muslim has stood up and said those things in the koran are not accurate for today. NO Muslim has condemned those people for teaching such violence, NO muslim has stood up and said we want nothing to do with female circumcism, or nothing to do with the terrorist attacks. The fact is that there are many muslim gangs on our streets – and it is not safe to park your car in a muslim area in our city if it has a christian sticker on it. IF Islam is such a peaceful religion, why don’mt they make public statements apologising that people of their religions have done as much.
At least Christians apologise for what other members of their faith have done. At least we don’t see christians standing up preaching war etc. And we don’t see anti-semitism in the bible, but we do see God’s instructions about what to do about specific people groups that were already waging war. Very different, and definitly not something that we apply now adays!
When will people open their eyes and see the real threat that Islam is. How it has changed our peaceful christian countries into countries that we are afraid to live in. How numerous females are mutilated every day in our city, and yet there is no-one who is willing to try and stop it, or stand up and condemn the practise publically.
And of course – if any one did say anything publically, they wouldn’t live to tell the story.
Tuesday 15 April 2008, 14:39
@ Gedulah #47
Yes, dear, you go and preserve some rainforests. We’ll go and preserve our country and culture and finally define the steps to take to undo the damage of importing a million illiterates.
Getting the point about the whole clue now?
Thursday 17 April 2008, 4:52
The film was honest. I have studied the koran and lived in Cairo. islam is a gutter cult following a pedophile. It is irrefutable. moohamed married aisha when she was 6 and raped her at 9. Murder, rape, lying and deciet ruin a man’s soul. muslims are a sad lot destroyed from within. Europe must put them down and out of their misery before they infect all with their disease.
Friday 18 April 2008, 13:13
Fitna…
a film that shows the real face of Islam.A film with facts and real events,and a sumarry of their hate-infected idelogy.Brilliant.
What kind of god would tell his childeren to go kill his other childeren ,because they have a different view on life and religion?Doesn’t that sound more like satan?
Anyway,this film shows facts and anyone who calls himself a muslim,automatically agrees with the sentences written in the quran (shown in the movie).Having said this,I wonder how muslims are verbally going to defend theirselfs.
I hope the muslims realise,that the world just got more worse for them.
I said “verbally”on purpose,because in terms of violence and war,Islam is no match for the US,UK-Europe,Canada,China,Japan and India anyway.They got brutally raped (again) in the war against Iraq,so lets forget war against the weak shall we.
Every time when evil shows his ugly face,which threatens our freedom,our unity and peace,we have defeated evil.And now we are facing evil Islam.
Thursday 3 July 2008, 4:44
Thanks authors for the specified materials, a lot of the provocative advice. All good.
Wednesday 29 July 2009, 16:32
Fitna is a funny movie with a stupid vision, the stupid director has used a verse from the Quran, which was written just for the disbelievers in the year 620, he has then used some stupid photos from stupid Muslims actions like Osama Bin Laden and says this is Islam!!
It is look like, if I use a verse from the Bible written for a specific reason and link it with photos from the Bush war in Iraq & the killing of children in Ghaza and say this is Christianity!
Very Stupid….and the director trying to cheat and brainwash the Audience because he thinks that (audience & people) are stupid like him.
Friday 31 July 2009, 12:49
Nr 47 et al .. there are plenty of Moslims who have been standing up and fighting ignorance and intolerance for years in their own countries and abroad. Ever heard of Nawal El Sadawi & Irshad Manji? Just to name two renowned human rights activists/academics/Moslim women.
Patriarchal religious fanaticism and testosterone has always been a dangerous mix.
There are plenty of countries that have a long way to go on human rights issues, whatever their religious leanings. Throughout history, progress occurs at a variable pace in various societies ..
It is not long ago that Western women were considered loose if they went alone anywhere.. or women had to wear headscarves.
In fact, millions of women and children all around the world and of course here in the Netherlands, are still unseen victims of domestic violence -a huge societal problem which is finally being assessed by governments.
http://www.who.int/gender/violence/who_multicountry_study/en/)
Yet I do not see masses of people standing up and protesting “ZINLOZE GEWELD” against women or children.
Men of all creeds, race and wallet prey on women and children for their sexual vice. That child prostitution and domestic abuse are so common in so many countries is disgusting and bizarre. Yet people do very little to fight and abolish these crimes, or stir up political debate.
As for that amateur Fitna Film .. it belongs on the same shelf with all other badly made propaganda media such as Obama Trash Laden Videos & Fox Obnox. Docs.